Tank pinhole leaked gas all over...now won't start

[Curt the Craftsman]

I'm looking for some direction as to where I should start my repair efforts. I have a '50 8n I've done soooo much to...new pump, radiator, starter switch, carb, 12v, alternator, plugs, distributor, I could go on. I can not emphasize enough how much I'm NOT a mechanic. But through the amazing information on this forum and a willingness to learn and work, I've gotten it done.

About a year ago I finally hit a point where I got the timing right amongst other things and she's be running so well ever since. Like. A. Charm. Like, I'd let her sit for 4 to 6 months and she'd fire right up.

Well, I was driving around a little load of dirt in my nifty rear scoop bucket the other day, and she suddenly sputtered a bit and died...never to be revived. This is not like her these days.

Upon a brief investigation, someone before me had epoxy patched a small hole in the gas tank and it had come off...gas was spilling all over the manifold and everything below. I mean, the recessed spots where the spark plugs insert were totally full of gasoline, gas was just running down and all over seemingly everything on the carb side. Gas everywhere.

I plugged that hole, sopped and cleaned it up best I could, took the plugs out and wire brushed them clean, and filled the tank, but I can't get the tractor to fire. I don't know where to start. I really am not in a place where I can start over and go through all the trouble shooting and work I did 2 years ago.

I can't help but assume that my problem has something to do with the gas inundating the engine. Does anyone with experience have an idea what my problem could be after that has leak? The carb is getting her fuel for sure, but I'm lost after that. Any guidance would be appreciated. Did I mention I was not a mechanic ?

 

[Tall T]

An important tip for you that i know works.
When I was restoring a very old rusty tank and thinking that there must be a patch that works and stays on.
I wound up on a 3M website and they said this in answer to the question of Bondo working as a stay-on patch:
YES, Bondo will work for gas tank pinholes but do not use Bondo in a scenario where the Bondo is SUBMERGED in gas.

I went to find that quote quite a while later but it seems to have been removed.
I think they removed it not because it wasn't true but to avoid any lawsuits stemming from someone using it for other than their stated use as applies to tanks or not properly prepping the surface or whatever.

Think how quickly a leak could be stopped if one was on a trip and sprung a leak.
Sets up so quickly and sticks like sh*t to a blanket if the surrounding area is rough and ready.

The entire outside bottom of the tank in my 1951 van is now fiberglass.
I didn't actually have a pinhole so did it as insurance after sitting for 20 years, and to extend the tank life.

As to your tractor not starting, pull the plugs, rotate and blow dry the cylinders with compressed air and maybe change the plugs.
after checking for good gravity feed fuel flow. Maybe your carb needle is stuck shut. Ether?

T

 

[Dan]

Well, it could be a few things and you mentioned that you weren't a experienced mechanic. So instead of trying to guess and run you ragged replacing parts a good mechanic troubleshoots and isolates the issue. These tractors are about as basic internal combustion engines as you will find, so start with the basic three - fuel, air, and spark at the right time. Since you say the carb is getting fuel, try spark to start the troubleshooting. Buy a cheap inline spark tester with a light in it between one of the spark plags and plug wire. If it doesn't light up when you turn the engine over with the key on - you are one step closer to finding your issue. Come back for further troubleshooting.

Instead of being overwhelmed, start small and go into it believing that you can and will find the fix! You will be an antique Ford tractor mechanic in no time.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

I'll give that a try, thanks. Can I ask, just so I understand, what is it that all that fuel saturation would do to the plugs and cylinders? I should add, it has been about 3 weeks or more since the incident.

I think I'll be replacing the tank. If it has that hole, I can assume there are more lying in wait.

 

[Dan]

Usually, fuel saturation on plugs doesn't cause a lot of issues and burns right off. Now you can easily "flood" an engine (as in hold the choke for too long trying to start) and it will not start until the gas dissipates but that deals more with air to fuel ratios required for combustion than fouling spark plugs. Also, washing the cylinders down with gas strips the piston ring lubrication away and dilutes the oil but once again this is temporary. I don't see this as your issue here.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

An important tip for you that i know works.
When I was restoring a very old rusty tank and thinking that there must be a patch that works and stays on.
I wound up on a 3M website and they said this in answer to the question of Bondo working as a stay-on patch:
YES, Bondo will work for gas tank pinholes but do not use Bondo in a scenario where the Bondo is SUBMERGED in gas.

I went to find that quote quite a while later but it seems to have been removed.
I think they removed it not because it wasn't true but to avoid any lawsuits stemming from someone using it for other than their stated use as applies to tanks or not properly prepping the surface or whatever.

Think how quickly a leak could be stopped if one was on a trip and sprung a leak.
Sets up so quickly and sticks like sh*t to a blanket if the surrounding area is rough and ready.

The entire outside bottom of the tank in my 1951 van is now fiberglass.
I didn't actually have a pinhole so did it as insurance after sitting for 20 years, and to extend the tank life.

As to your tractor not starting, pull the plugs, rotate and blow dry the cylinders with compressed air and maybe change the plugs.
after checking for good gravity feed fuel flow. Maybe your carb needle is stuck shut. Ether?

T

T, what did your Ether question mean?

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

Usually, fuel saturation on plugs doesn't cause a lot of issues and burns right off. Now you can easily "flood" an engine (as in hold the choke for too long trying to start) and it will not start until the gas dissipates but that deals more with air to fuel ratios required for combustion than fouling spark plugs. Also, washing the cylinders down with gas strips the piston ring lubrication away and dilutes the oil but once again this is temporary. I don't see this as your issue here.

It did seem to make a bit of a hard knocking sound for just a moment before it quit.

I want to add that yesterday I noticed a very slow fuel drip from where the air tube attaches to the carb as well as the low carb drain plug.

 

[Dan]

It did seem to make a bit of a hard knocking sound for just a moment before it quit.

I want to add that yesterday I noticed a very slow fuel drip from where the air tube attaches to the carb as well as the low carb drain plug.

This means your needle valve in the carb is not shutting off (common) or you are trying to start and holding the choke too long. When you stop using the tractor always shut off the fuel from the shutoff under the tank, never trust the needle valve in the carb.

 

[Lynn Patrick]

You were driving a warm engine, which means a HOT manifold, on an engine w/exposed spark plugs w/"recessed spots" around them & pouring raw gas on all this. I hope there was a LOUD prayer of thanks that there was not a very quick explosion & fire! I would not even CONSIDER reusing that tank when new ones are available!

 

[Jim L WA]

Another thing to consider. When it quit running and you discovered the leak, could you have left the key on? If so, the points may have burned. Do you have a test light or an analog volt meter? Test for battery at the top of the coil, key on of course. Then look for fluctuation while turning the engine over. If you see fluctuation, then the points are working, if not then pull the distributor and have a look. You may be able to just run some emory cloth or fine sand paper through the contacts and fix it.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

Another thing to consider. When it quit running and you discovered the leak, could you have left the key on? If so, the points may have burned. Do you have a test light or an analog volt meter? Test for battery at the top of the coil, key on of course. Then look for fluctuation while turning the engine over. If you see fluctuation, then the points are working, if not then pull the distributor and have a look. You may be able to just run some emory cloth or fine sand paper through the contacts and fix it.

Thanks, Jim. I don't think so, but it's possible.

I did pop the distributor off yesterday and it was beautiful inside. I can run the test you mentioned.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

You were driving a warm engine, which means a HOT manifold, on an engine w/exposed spark plugs w/"recessed spots" around them & pouring raw gas on all this. I hope there was a LOUD prayer of thanks that there was not a very quick explosion & fire! I would not even CONSIDER reusing that tank when new ones are available!

I have wondered a few times if I'm here complaining about having to fix a tractor when I could be complaining that I have to fix my body.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

This means your needle valve in the carb is not shutting off (common) or you are trying to start and holding the choke too long. When you stop using the tractor always shut off the fuel from the shutoff under the tank, never trust the needle valve in the carb.

I didn't get a chance to dismantle the carb today...spent the day charging the battery.

But I did notice that, just from turning on the fuel for a few seconds to let some gas gravity feed down, that even hours later there's some gas dripping from the base of the carb.

I'll drop the bottom off the carb in the morning to see what be going on in there.

 

[Non-farmer]

I'll drop the bottom off the carb in the morning to see what be going on in there.

The commonest cause of gas dripping like that is overchoking and it leaking out a not tightened sufficiently air breather connector hose. so don't be shocked if your inspection doesn't show anything obviously wrong.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

The commonest cause of gas dripping like that is overchoking and it leaking out a not tightened sufficiently air breather connector hose. so don't be shocked if your inspection doesn't show anything obviously wrong.

Okay. I did just tighten the hose clamp as well as the carb plug, though. And I'm not really choking anything at this point. I literally just had enough battery today to pull the choke, turn it over a couple of times, and put the charger back on. So it was only an attempted choke for a moment.

 

[Mad Farmer]

What do your spark plugs look like?

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

They look pretty good. The plug closest to the steering wheel had a black point, which I brush cleaned up. But the other 3 were all that nice tan/beige color, which is what your hoping for, as I understand things.

 

[Non-farmer]

But the other 3 were all that nice tan/beige color, which is what your hoping for, as I understand things.

Yep, that sounds good.

 

[Jim L WA]

Curt, I went back over this thread and I don't see where you ever said you are getting spark at the spark plugs or not. Just take one out and lay it on the head with the wire attached, crank it over, key on and look for spark.

 

[Curt the Craftsman]

Curt, I went back over this thread and I don't see where you ever said you are getting spark at the spark plugs or not. Just take one out and lay it on the head with the wire attached, crank it over, key on and look for spark.

When I do that, no, I don't see a spark. Maybe the gas damaged something electrically?