I have owned my own tanks for 35 yrs. I went to INWELD today to exchange my acetylene tank the new manager tried to tell me you can't own tanks today. He did exchange today after a lenghty discussion. I told him I bought the tanks 35 yr.ago from a family owned welding sales & they sold out to another Co (DEPKE).Depke said they could no longer service me. I would have to lease from them.I told them so long and went to INWELD.He told me he could exchange my tanks after testing & has for the last 5 yrs. What should I do now?
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Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I pay a 60$ inspection fee every 10 yrs. and have had no problem exchanging my tanks.
That's BS,I've owned tanks for years, I think they just don't want to mess with you. As a matter of fact I just swapped out my owned oxygen, aceteline, and a mixed (MIG) gas bottle the other day at Machine and Welding Supply. I've also done the same at National Welders numerous times over the years without a problem.
That said your problem may just be the size of the bottles. Most companies have a set size bottle that is "customer owned" and anything over is considered a leased size. I think alot of the problem is that for the typical 'personally owned' bottle with a BIG bottle they don't get to fill it enough times in a year to cover the cost of upkeep (ie the required inspections). With the smaller bottles they might get to fill it twice or three times a year so they can actually make some money off of it.
Beyond that I'd tell him to show you the 'law' or more likely their 'company policy' in black and white because I for one don't think it exists, they just don't want to mess with you. I'd just about guarantee if you went in and bought a new machine, or supplies every time you took the bottle in to swap it they'd probably pat you on the back and welcome you in everytime you showed up.
Next time try somebody like Machine and Welding Supply or a 'franchise' of National Welders. Both are larger companies, National I know has alot of places across the US, and are, in my experience, usually alot better and easier to deal with than the 'Mom and Pop" supply houses. Worst case fins someone you know that works for a company with a major account and use their name when you go in and just pay cash.
That said your problem may just be the size of the bottles. Most companies have a set size bottle that is "customer owned" and anything over is considered a leased size. I think alot of the problem is that for the typical 'personally owned' bottle with a BIG bottle they don't get to fill it enough times in a year to cover the cost of upkeep (ie the required inspections). With the smaller bottles they might get to fill it twice or three times a year so they can actually make some money off of it.
Beyond that I'd tell him to show you the 'law' or more likely their 'company policy' in black and white because I for one don't think it exists, they just don't want to mess with you. I'd just about guarantee if you went in and bought a new machine, or supplies every time you took the bottle in to swap it they'd probably pat you on the back and welcome you in everytime you showed up.
Next time try somebody like Machine and Welding Supply or a 'franchise' of National Welders. Both are larger companies, National I know has alot of places across the US, and are, in my experience, usually alot better and easier to deal with than the 'Mom and Pop" supply houses. Worst case fins someone you know that works for a company with a major account and use their name when you go in and just pay cash.
Now, was it that hard to post a clear, concise response, rather than rambling for paragraph after paragraph or useless phycho babble you heard on NPR? I guess you really know tools but politics makes your mind spin like a top. I knew there was intelligence in there....just couldn't figure out where. I am very proud of you.
Bill in Colo
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rio Blanco County, Co
In my area everybody owns their tanks I don't think any of the regional co even lease tanks anymore. If you have a tank they will exchange it, there is plenty of competition for business the firm I use fills tank on site.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Because they have to have the tanks hydro tested, so why so they have to pay for a tank you own. Yes you swap tanks but you own them and should have to pay your way..
MAY GOD BLESS THE USA
MAY GOD BLESS THE USA
Bud in FLA
Member
It gets worse - I bought my tanks from National Welders in SC 30 years ago. Sunox/Nat Welders were interchangeable. We moved to NC 15 years ago and found the same thing. National Welders would exchange Sunox/Holox bottles and they'd exchange National Welders bottles. Sunox became Holox and Sunox ceased to exist.
Move here 2-1/2 years ago, needed gas and found that Holox had been bought by National Welders who had been bought by Airgas.
Airgas offered to exchange my 150cu ft tanks with 80 cu ft tanks but that's about it...plus since I made the mistake of owning them, I needed to prove where I bought them from! Guess they need to KMA!
Since I have 3 sets of O2/Acl, 1 mixed gas for MIG and Argon for TIG, I guess I'll find an independent dealer and have him ship my bottles off to be filled and tested….hopefully they won’t have to go to China but I wouldn’t be surprised!
Move here 2-1/2 years ago, needed gas and found that Holox had been bought by National Welders who had been bought by Airgas.
Airgas offered to exchange my 150cu ft tanks with 80 cu ft tanks but that's about it...plus since I made the mistake of owning them, I needed to prove where I bought them from! Guess they need to KMA!
Since I have 3 sets of O2/Acl, 1 mixed gas for MIG and Argon for TIG, I guess I'll find an independent dealer and have him ship my bottles off to be filled and tested….hopefully they won’t have to go to China but I wouldn’t be surprised!
Look,you and I have a different opinion about some things.I am a real mechanic/welder.I dont learn what I put on here from reading I actually have done most of it or heard of it from experience.I even had a shop one time and 5 guys working for me for a while in the 1980s.I skip the ones I dont want to mess with or just dont know.I was a diesel truck mechanic mot a tractor mechanic so I dont know a lot of stuff about tractors except ones Ive worked on.I know my handle is trucker but thats what I was doing when I started on here about 10 years ago.I bought a Farmall from my neighbor who just had it setting in his back yard in town here and found this site here as I was rebuilding the engine and started replying to welding questions that I knew sometimes and some other things.I quit posting for a year or 2 when I about died more that once about 4 years ago and had to change my handle to trucker40.Anybody that knows me knows this about me,Im not a Kool Aid drinking conservative at all.I even have some relatives who are,but I argue with them too.Actually I am getting mad at all of them,but I cant stand the boot lickers of the rich.They make me want to puke,and now its both sides.Way more than I want to take time to put on here,but you know what Im talking about.I am not crazy either.I dont know where some folks get this idea that this one side of politics is the right thing for them to do.Not like that where Im from.I found out from driving a truck from North to South there is a lot of difference in opinion.If you ever have traveled you can see what I mean.The South has been beat up and robbed by the North.Now industry is going to the South because they are more friendly to non union.Crooks are crooks.The crooks take advantage of the poor and exploit them.Thats why China is getting all the industry,even by offering no taxes to the crooks they would rather move to China and not pay wages either.Now doesnt it make you want to puke to be on that side?A Senator from Oklahoma is personally stopping the bill that is supported by both sides to help the veterans.His name is Coburn.Says he wont vote for it because he doesnt know how it will be paid for,yet has voted for billions of funding for the Iraq war with no guarantee of payment.Typical crap from your side.Disgusting.If you ever read the constitution,Bill of Rights,Preamble,Magna Carta,those men knew better.Why dont you?Did you come from another country.Did you go to school in Russia?I really mean it.This stuff was taught to me in school and I cant imagine why it wasnt taught to you in school.The crooks actually have dumbed down a generation to get their agenda through.Arent we suffering enough from this stupidity?Why dont you get it?Some day you will,and probably sooner than you think.You dont support the guy thats taking food off of your table to put money in his pocket.Then he comes back time after time once the people get fed up with it and run him out of politics,and does the same thing again and again.Learn from the past.Move forward,not backward.The more passionate for the crooks that you get,the more disgusted of you I get.If you want to argue about something,fine.However you wont change my mind one tiny microscopic bit.I know that what I learned in school and from life is right.Not Right wing,the right wing is nearly always wrong,check history.Our existence is a fine balancing act of right and wrong,not right and left wing.When you are on the wrong side screaming you know better than everybody,and the whole country goes further in the sewer,how is that right?Our country has lost its way because of crooks that are greedy warmongering hogs and dont represent us.Also now they have perverted everything,including you,and the news media too.All of this is adding up faster than you can find out about it.Wonder how it will be for you when it all collapses?Its about there now.This all happened before,it was called the Civil War.That was stupid too.This time there wont be anything left and this freedom will be gone probably.Wrap your mind around that for a while.You dont ever need to worry about me.I always have been a Patriotic American.I always will be.I dont mistake patriotism for warmongering.I dont say Im better than everybody else because I wave a flag.Im no fortunate son.Since the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 men in my family have fought for this country.So you even can believe what you do because of freedom.Doesnt make your opinion right,but you have the freedom to have it wrong as it is.Before you come after me you need to pack a lunch and bring a flashlight and a bunch of bandages because its going to be all day and way past dark before you get it over on me,and likely wont ever get it done.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I'm not sure what you are on, but if it's too expensive, Wal-Mart has some generic equivalents.
If they want proof of where they were bought from tell them to check the stampings on the bottle its self or the name cast into the ring around the top of the bottle. I once acquired a bottle that the last test dare on it was 1056 and traded it in at National with no problems.
On top of that I'd also tell them that if they don't have a record of your transaction from 30 years ago then why the he!! would they expect you to.
Sounds like ya'll have all just run into a bunch of people that want to be a$$holes. In that case then I understand exactly what your saying about doing whatever you need to do to get them swapped out. Still before I did that I'd go over the head of the guys in the store and give corprate a chance to make it right. Like any business those guys know that the whole companies reputation can be spoiled by the guys in one dealership and may be willing to make things happen to keep negative posts like this from getting out. It may or may not work but it's always worth a try.
On top of that I'd also tell them that if they don't have a record of your transaction from 30 years ago then why the he!! would they expect you to.
Sounds like ya'll have all just run into a bunch of people that want to be a$$holes. In that case then I understand exactly what your saying about doing whatever you need to do to get them swapped out. Still before I did that I'd go over the head of the guys in the store and give corprate a chance to make it right. Like any business those guys know that the whole companies reputation can be spoiled by the guys in one dealership and may be willing to make things happen to keep negative posts like this from getting out. It may or may not work but it's always worth a try.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Why would a welding shop want to exchange a cylinder, that some stranger couldn't get filled or exchanged, that they might not be able to get filled or exchanged? You claim you are a welder but have no qualifications to speak of except you've burned some rods. If someone questions your posts, you admit to spending hours looking it up on the net. Welding supplies keep track of how many cylinders their customers have. If a cylinder(s) is missing or damaged or exchanged with a cylinder that isn't theirs, the customer has to pay for the missing cylinder! How does the welding shop know that the cylinder a stranger brings in, to hopefully exchange, isn't damaged or stolen in the first place? And they won't care if it's paid in cash? Like so many of your posts, this one is full of really big IF's rather than a credible solution to a problem. Unbelievable! Dave
Uncle Ernie
Member
I agree with you!!
I am curious as to what it has to do with welding tanks...
I am curious as to what it has to do with welding tanks...
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yes, the name around the neck of the cylinder tells a lot. The big welding supplies usually work together to police theirs and other welding supplies cylinders. They should have a list of all cylinders that are welding supply owned only, and cylinders that can not be refilled. I don't know about the older cylinders, but most of the new, customer owned, cylinders don't have a company name on the neck other than the manufacturer. Never the less there should be a list of what cylinders were able to be sold. Sometimes only certain sizes were available to buy from certain suppliers. Usually owned cylinders are just exchanged but the owner pays a hydrotest charge every 5 or 10 years, depending on the requirement of the cylinders at purchase time. Acetylene cylinders for example, need to be weighed and thoroughly checked for loss of acetone or damage etc. Most people wouldn't want to wait to send their cylinders off, however if it is a different cylinder than the suppliers, then there is no alternative than to send it out for testing and filling. I worked at a large welding supply for a few months several years ago and some customer owned cylinders were sent out for filling. Dave
Bud in FLA
Member
I've been exchanging tanks with Nat Welders or Holox for years but Nat Welders does not exist here....so much for that "National" thingie in their name.
Looks like I'm going to be driving 4 hours one way to Charlotte to get gas.
Looks like I'm going to be driving 4 hours one way to Charlotte to get gas.
Look,both welding shops about 15 miles from me here exchange tanks.Why? Because they charge like 5 bucks a bottle more than the truck.If I need a tank on Saturday I can get one at the shop thats open,gladly pay his 5 dollar extra charge and continue with my little job.Otherwise I would have to drive 90 miles round trip or try and catch the truck,but on Saturday its not going to happen anyway since the truck doesnt run on Saturday and if I want to get anything done I dont want to drive 90 miles.Now think real hard about what is going to damage a cylinder?The valve I can see and have had bad ones,but the cylinder about all it could do would be rust.You need to go in and talk to them first,they have a card file,plus they check and see if you have tanks with that supplier at the one place.I worked at one place and the other place I have exchanged tanks there since the 1970s.Plus I pay in cash and I usually dont wait and the one place doesnt even care whos bottle it is,they have everybodys.I even carry the tank in on my shoulder to the rack and if they arent real busy one of them will be dragging a new one out before I get to the rack.Tanks have numbers on them and if its stolen you probably are going to get a visit from a cop.Did I say you could take a stolen tank in?I dont think I did.If its broke they should check it before they fill it.I have not ever one time had them ask me if the tank was broke.I have had a broken valve and had to trade it back,and even had one leak and told them it was leaking,but I dont get the broken part.If I broke it I would tell them and pay for the damage I guess.All of them gripe if I dont have the top on the tank.You are going to wear yourself out chasing around everything I say to try and make me look bad.Is that your plan?Just because you think you know everything and dont really know much is why you are failing.It might surprise you to find out that some places actually try and please customers.I know its a foreign idea to you,but there may still be a few good folks out there.You want to treat them right and they will treat you right,so thats why you pay cash.Like they say money talks.Drive in there and tell them you have a cylinder in the bed of your truck,then write them a check,or gripe because its higher than the delivery truck and ask to charge it and you might wait a couple of hours or they might run you off and tell you not to come back.You pay cash so they dont have to worry about it and its a thanks for them having that service for your benefit.You also need to find out who is responsible for that job and not bother the guy running the lathe at 150 dollars an hour labor to get you a tank,if its the floor sweepers job.I was just saying it might be a way that would work for him.It might not work for you since you would have to have a certified exchange with a police background check before you would attempt to exchange your bottles.I believe they have a list of numbers at the bottle place that are possibly stolen and keep track of what numbers are supposed to be at which customers.I think they tell you about that when you buy the bottles,but every place is different probably.Do you think some jerk at a place that fills bottles is going to make a good customer like a welding shop mad for exchanging your bottle?If he does he will get fired probably and should be.I dont know any more,there might be people ignorant enough to be like that.I dont even know if welding shops everywhere will do that either.Its worth trying for him if the guy that fills bottles is trying to give him a run around.Now whats your solution?Have you done it?Or do you just dream about it?
Sorry,I left out in that tirade that some of these guys think that they can tell me what to believe.Such as the one who was saying he was proud of me for the nice concise answer.I had enough and was telling him so there would be no future confusion on his part of where I stood and that I was just as American as anybody else.Theres another one up there who thinks he is an expert on welding and just tries to find things to pick at in my answers.Im no authority on welding,but I did weld a lot in my life,once for 4 years at a structural steel place.What I know,I know.I say sometimes I could be wrong,and sometimes I am.I dont attempt to claim to be an authority.If I answer a question for you about all I care is if it worked or not or what got you going.I dont want to impress anybody with what I claim to know and dont usually have time all day to look stuff up,but I do if I can.Having to exchange torch and welding bottles for a long time,I know how to get it done I think.Just in case there was any doubt I think I am qualified to answer that question.Sorry for the explosion,but sometimes I feel like Im the only one on my side.Thanks for agreeing with me.I know lots of people do,but I let their sides bull crap bother me way more than I should.Its so disgusting that I just dont want to let them get away with it.I guess I know they wont change because of what I say,but I feel like the other side needs to be heard from,and its been loosing because its been silent.Both sides are bad now it seems and I dont have an idea of what to do other than point out what I can figure out and hope that they really are trying to fix something.I know what didnt work and they can forget me ever supporting that,just so its clear.
It all depends on what and whom you are swapping tanks with. small tanks are customer owned, B, mc 90cf etc. Yes there is a Federal Law that says I can only fill a tank that is ours( Company) but we have agreements with several different national companies to fill and exchange their tanks. I also know that hardly a week goes by that someone tries to pass of a tank that belongs to the store down the street and I will not exchange their tank. As the "I bought my tank stuff, read the fine print,you might have but the fine print on the bills I see now say the seller OWNS the tanks at all times, you just give them money all at once instead of once a year rent.( If you have customer owned tanks it is common now to charge a maintenance fee per cyl.we get 12.00 a year.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Maybe you could a letter from your supplier that confirms you own the cylinders, so the local supplier could refill them? If they are still within the time frame before needing to be tested. Dave
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
What you described is a smaller distributor of cylinders for a larger welding supply. Most welding shops wouldn't be bothered with it. It is common in smaller areas outside the larger cities. If they have your name on record, they can contact you if they discover your cylinder is damaged and charge you accordingly. Many things could damage a cylinder and no, 99% of people aren't going to openly admit to damaging a cylinder. A high pressure cylinder is basically a bomb ready to go off if the cap is missing. That's why they make a big deal out of it. Cylinders aren't cheap. Oxygen could be filled on site but not acetylene. I'd also bet you have a lease or purchased your cylinders from this distributor in the first place. Cylinders have test dates on them but not serial numbers. There are millions of cylinders being used by millions of people. There is no way to tell if they are stolen except by the name on the neck. No cylinder supplier is going to accept any money from a stranger before checking out the cylinder, even cash. Suppliers will only exchange their own cylinders. If they do fill a different cylinder, it wouldn't be exchanged, only filled. You are the one who is dreaming but worse than that your lastest post is full of even more IF's. If you had to drive 90 miles round trip to TRY and CATCH the TRUCK, why not just go to the welding supply? If you did catch the truck, then what, he pulls over in the middle of the road to exchange your cylinder? Don't you think the truck has to unload the empties and load the full cylinders somewhere? And yes, a welding supply would be mad if a distributor exchanged a cylinder that wasn't theirs. Like I said, I worked at a large welding supply. Did you? Dave
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Thank you! It's frustrating when someone tries to explain something they don't know. I've even seen it where someone bought cylinders at an auction and then took them to get filled only to have the tanks seized as being stolen from the supplier. Yes, even if you purchase tanks, you still have to pay a maintenance/testing fee at some time. Maybe T40 is talking about propane tanks? They can be filled anywhere as long as they're within the date and in good shape. High pressure cylinders not so much. Dave
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Quote; "Sorry for the explosion,but sometimes I feel like Im the only one on my side.Thanks for agreeing with me.I know lots of people do,but I let their sides bull crap bother me way more than I should.Its so disgusting that I just dont want to let them get away with it."
Just read this again. From what I'm reading, you're saying that lots of people who agree with you are full of bull crap and it's bothering you more than it should. It is disgusting and you shouldn't let them get away with it. You should admit that if the people who agree with you are full of bull crap, then you must be too! Sorry, that's your own words. Dave
Read again it was OR catch the truck.If you call and find out where the truck is tomorrow,if its close to you and you are there when he gets to his destination he will exchange with you during the week.The welding supply is closed on Saturday afternoon and the truck doesnt even run at all on Saturday.It doesnt matter the welding shop will exchange any time they are open and have bottles.The truck comes once a week to places where it leaves tanks.If I need rods or other supplies I go to the welding supply.I didnt say he would exchange in the middle of the road and Im sure he wont.You seem to think that the damage is a big problem.Well in 30 years of messing with them myself I have seen maybe 2 damaged valves.Not that I worked at a big distributor though.AS for the numbers,the company I always deal with writes the numbers down off of the tank every time I exchange anywhere I exchange.I dont know if thats to track it for absolute sure,but I believe thats what its for.I am nearly certain they said that when I bought my cylinders 25 years ago.Buy,Rent whatever it is at other places,I bought mine at this place.I know because I bought an Argon tank about 4 years ago and had a choice of buying or renting and checked on the others while I was at it.Now I dont know everything about bottles but I know enough to get them exchanged.I have a rented bottle my CO2 tank,but have never had a problem exchanging it at the welding shop either.Just because you worked at a welding supply doesnt make you an authority either.Maybe you know what they told you at that company.To be fair most arent much different probably,but it doesnt mean all of them are the same.I am about 95% certain that the company I use has tracking numbers on their tanks and it has their name on them as well,I could be wrong.
There wasnt anything empty in what I said.Could be that you didnt care to hear it.Maybe its you that should ruminate.Why would I say that to you?Do you think I would go to all that trouble typing with 2 fingers for you to think it was empty?I dont know who or how they brainwashed you,but they did a very good job.You still can break free and figure out whats wrong and learn.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I'm 100% certain that you're not sure of 95% of anything you post. Putting a damaged cylinder in service is a big deal! I'm not talking about a leaking valve. Have you ever seen an exploded acetylene cylinder or what an oxygen cylinder under pressure can do? Damaged cylinders aren't common but it does happen and people try to get them filled. An arc strike, welding, grinder marks, corrosion, nicks in a cylinder from a sharp piece of steel, being in a fire, or damage a customer tried to paint over are just a few examples of why cylinders need to be taken out of service.
Could it be that what the supplier rights down is how many full cylinders you took and how many empties you returned and what type of cylinders they were(owned or leased etc.)? Sometimes a customer will want another cylinder before he has finished the one he is using. Then he doesn't have to worry about trying to get a cylinder on the weekend. Most suppliers will do this with leased cylinders for customers with an account. I would suggest that do a little more research before posting what you think might be right. If would give you a little more credibility than just hoping you are right. Dave
Could it be that what the supplier rights down is how many full cylinders you took and how many empties you returned and what type of cylinders they were(owned or leased etc.)? Sometimes a customer will want another cylinder before he has finished the one he is using. Then he doesn't have to worry about trying to get a cylinder on the weekend. Most suppliers will do this with leased cylinders for customers with an account. I would suggest that do a little more research before posting what you think might be right. If would give you a little more credibility than just hoping you are right. Dave
Kentb of SWMO
Well-known Member
trucker40 needs to learn that after a period you hit the SPACE BAR before you start a new sentence. Make reading easier.
Kent
Kent
Hmmm.It makes sense to me,but not as clear as it should be written maybe.It means this,there is a side to these conversations thats different than mine.That would be yours along with others.I was trying to say that its bull and it bothers me more than it should,is why I exploded with the tirade.IT was not aimed at the one agreeing with me,it was aimed at the one giving me a bad time.Not all that clear maybe.However you are not nearly as bad as the one that I was replying to.He is on this political stuff.Always on the wrong side to my thinking,doesnt make him bad,but it does get irritating.I do have a little trouble expressing things some times how I want to say it by writing.I talk fast and think about a lot,so maybe I should process my thoughts a little better before I write.
I had a lot to do yesterday when I posted that and didnt have time to check,but I will.I am about ready to exchange my co2/argon mix tank soon.I will ask then.I never saw the side you did as far as damaged bottles.I have had a bottle a long time ago that I had to have filled but I dont remember anything special about it.I just had to wait a week to get it back.I dont see any difference except in how much you pay between owning and renting.Except for the one tank I always exchanged them.Nobody has ever said anything about damage that I know about.Im not in a big city.I have seen a film when I was in FFA years ago about a tank going through a concrete block wall when it fell over and knocked the valve off.They write down what cylinder you take and what you leave,then they write numbers off of the cylinder in a ticket book looking thing.It might be some other record,but I will find out.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Good idea. You can proof read your posts and correct them before posting them as well. Having some concrete evidence or documentation to back up a claim would also be a good idea. As far as cylinders, you can't just take them anywhere. Read your lease or purchase agreements. Dave
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
REALHEAD, BETTER KNOWN AS "BONEHEAD" SPEAKS WITH FORKED TONGUE.... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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