What engine is in my Model D grader? With pitchurz

[Bob Bancroft]

I looked at the marketing materials from late 50s for the model D, and they touted "50HP to move the material faster". There was no breakdown of how they got there. Since there's no PTO, it's all shaft HP at the flywheel.

I have a D-17 ser I engine setup for Propane, and I don't need it but also have a Gleaner 226 engine which is supposed to be about 60HP. I've swapped the governor bits from a WD over to the Gleaner engine so I have throttle. In retrospect, I should have just left it with the fixed RPM from the Gleaner.

Eventually, I might get all three going, but the one that's been in a fire is rough looking, and it's a low option grader. No scarifier, leaning wheels, power steering, or hyd circle control. It also has the small/narrow wheels for the 7.50x20 tractor tires. The fire grader also has all the wheels off, and the lugs are in rough shape. Would take about 10-12 hours to sort out all the lug nuts and bolts.

I just read, probably on here, that someone was looking for an "E" engine, as they had found a combine without.

 

[4wdtom]

A legit gasoline burning WD-45 engine (W-226) was 50 FLYWHEEL HP @ 1400 RPM rated speed, which translates into 43 PTO HP. A legit D-17 gas engine (G-226) engine was 63 FLYWHEEL HP @ 1650 RPM rated speed, which produces 53 PTO HP when the tractor has factory power steering. The WD-45 engine high idle is 1700 RPM and the D-17 is 2,000 RPM.

As always, you provide good information.

 

[DrAllis]

I think the GA code is for gasoline, instead of kerosene. Not really "high" compression, but higher than kero. It started life as a WD series engine from late 1948 thru mid 1953. All WD45 engines started the s/n with 45-XXXXX.

 

[DrAllis]

As far as the WD-45 and why it is called the "45", that tractor when Nebraska tested was an honest 45 HP on the BELT PULLEY. Later dynomometer books had it listed as 43+ HP at the PTO.

 

[4wdtom]

As far as the WD-45 and why it is called the "45", that tractor when Nebraska tested was an honest 45 HP on the BELT PULLEY. Later dynomometer books had it listed as 43+ HP at the PTO.

Another interesting bit of information, thanks! More gears involved in the pto than the belt pulley for more power loss maybe. Or just a better running engine for the 45hp?

 

[DrAllis]

Every time you go thru a pair of gears, you lose some HP. The PTO geartrain was five gears total.

 

[DrAllis]

I have to correct myself on the WD-45 HP numbers. It seems their live testing in 1953 was still on the belt pulley, not the PTO. The "live" HP test was 43.21 belt HP @ 1400 RPM, but the air temp (July 29th) was 75 degrees F. The "official " calculated rating was 45.27 HP when corrected to 60 degrees F air temp, at sea level and at 29.92 barometric pressure, also on the belt pulley. We always thought tractors ran better at night when it was cooler, didn't we !!! THEY DID !!

 

[4wdtom]

I have to correct myself on the WD-45 HP numbers. It seems their live testing in 1953 was still on the belt pulley, not the PTO. The "live" HP test was 43.21 belt HP @ 1400 RPM, but the air temp (July 29th) was 75 degrees F. The "official " calculated rating was 45.27 HP when corrected to 60 degrees F air temp, at sea level and at 29.92 barometric pressure, also on the belt pulley. We always thought tractors ran better at night when it was cooler, didn't we !!! THEY DID !!

Alright!

 

[docmirror]

I think the GA code is for gasoline, instead of kerosene. Not really "high" compression, but higher than kero. It started life as a WD series engine from late 1948 thru mid 1953. All WD45 engines started the s/n with 45-XXXXX.

This engine is in the 'light weight' version of the model D grader. It's sort of a scaled down version. No leaning wheels, PS, hyd circle, scarifier, dual range gearing, cab, and a set of drop center lighter rims with 7.50x20 tires rather than the 8.25x20 on split rims. My other 'big' grader has all the other features except the enclosed cab. Makes sense this would be a lower powered engine to go along with the limited feature set.

This smaller grader has a nice patina, all creamy yellow/orange. Not the common AC orange of their tractor line. Once I get this little one running I'm going to sell it and work on the other two. Has four new tires in back, a new seat and a nice straight 10' blade. I'm going to do the hyd lines as there are only four and make some money off it.

I just read, probably on here, that someone was looking for an "E" engine, as they had found a combine without.

I'll search it, and they can buy my Gleaner. I'm going to stick with the D17 propane engine. If you know the thread, share it.

 

[Bob Bancroft]

This engine is in the 'light weight' version of the model D grader. It's sort of a scaled down version. No leaning wheels, PS, hyd circle, scarifier, dual range gearing, cab, and a set of drop center lighter rims with 7.50x20 tires rather than the 8.25x20 on split rims. My other 'big' grader has all the other features except the enclosed cab. Makes sense this would be a lower powered engine to go along with the limited feature set.

This smaller grader has a nice patina, all creamy yellow/orange. Not the common AC orange of their tractor line. Once I get this little one running I'm going to sell it and work on the other two. Has four new tires in back, a new seat and a nice straight 10' blade. I'm going to do the hyd lines as there are only four and make some money off it.

I'll search it, and they can buy my Gleaner. I'm going to stick with the D17 propane engine. If you know the thread, share it.

I just found it- it's under the combine section- titled "Gleaner E engine replacement".

 

[farmer52]

This engine is in the 'light weight' version of the model D grader. It's sort of a scaled down version. No leaning wheels, PS, hyd circle, scarifier, dual range gearing, cab, and a set of drop center lighter rims with 7.50x20 tires rather than the 8.25x20 on split rims. My other 'big' grader has all the other features except the enclosed cab. Makes sense this would be a lower powered engine to go along with the limited feature set.

This smaller grader has a nice patina, all creamy yellow/orange. Not the common AC orange of their tractor line. Once I get this little one running I'm going to sell it and work on the other two. Has four new tires in back, a new seat and a nice straight 10' blade. I'm going to do the hyd lines as there are only four and make some money off it.

I'll search it, and they can buy my Gleaner. I'm going to stick with the D17 propane engine. If you know the thread, share it.

How about posting some pics of the D? Thanks!

 

[Richard Nixon]

As far as the WD-45 and why it is called the "45", that tractor when Nebraska tested was an honest 45 HP on the BELT PULLEY. Later dynomometer books had it listed as 43+ HP at the PTO.

Nebraska Test #499 dated 7-29-1953 listed 43.21 HP on belt Test B which was the maximum load test. This was the maximum HP obtained in the Nebraska tests. I believe the "45" designation came from Allis Chalmers' own tests. I don't see any mention of any PTO test being conducted at Nebraska. Test C at Nebraska which is more realistic (I think) showed 40.47 HP again on the belt. This prompts jokesters over on the Farmall forum to refer to the tractor as a "WD-40".

 

[Richard Nixon]

I have to correct myself on the WD-45 HP numbers. It seems their live testing in 1953 was still on the belt pulley, not the PTO. The "live" HP test was 43.21 belt HP @ 1400 RPM, but the air temp (July 29th) was 75 degrees F. The "official " calculated rating was 45.27 HP when corrected to 60 degrees F air temp, at sea level and at 29.92 barometric pressure, also on the belt pulley. We always thought tractors ran better at night when it was cooler, didn't we !!! THEY DID !!

Sorry about my post above evidently we were posting simultaneously. Yes. I totally agree. Our AC WC and WD both ran much smoother and seemed more powerful when working into the night from daytime. And it was very noticeable. Several reasons, I suppose. Calmer, cooler air. Maybe higher barometric pressure. ETC.

 

[docmirror]

How about posting some pics of the D? Thanks!

OK, I'll take some pics of all of them on Tue when I go down to the airport where the shop is. Right now, all I have are up close pics of the flywheel, carb, and some other detail bits. I'll take some overall pics and post up here late Tue afternoon.

 

[docmirror]

There's a lot of commonality between the WD45 engine and the early D-17 engine. I checked the parts list, and the two are almost identical with the only change is the higher comp pistons and the higher RPM. I have some higher compression pistons in a kit, and when I take my little grader engine apart, I'm going to repl the dished pistons with the flat tops and turn up the RPM on the governor a bit. I don't really need the extra power but I'm sure the grader will work fine with a bit more push.

I tried the rock it back and forth with lube in the jugs and it just wouldn't break loose. I jerked it back and forth in third gear, and at one time I thought I made it move, but it's just the clutch plate slipping on the PP. So, when it comes out, I'll need a clutch plate and PP refurb as well as some new jugs and pistons.

 

[Aaron SEIA]

As far as the WD-45 and why it is called the "45", that tractor when Nebraska tested was an honest 45 HP on the BELT PULLEY. Later dynomometer books had it listed as 43+ HP at the PTO.

I always assumed the 45 designation was due to the 4.5" crank.
AaronSEIA

 

[DrAllis]

You are correct, that there are many parts that interchange between the W-226 (WD45) and the G-226 (D-17). But, there are two things that are always different and absolutely distinguish the difference between the two engines. The G-226 (D-17) engine has a different BLOCK and CRANKSHAFT. The main bearings on the crankshaft are 3 inches in diameter instead of the 2.500" diameter (approx) of the W-series engine. The block and the crankshaft are beefier and stronger to hold up to the extra compression and RPM increase over many years of service. This is unfortunately something many just don't know or understand. Yup. Many parts do interchange between the two engines, but the block and crank must always go together because of the main bearing diameter.

 

[docmirror]

Thanks Dr. I will not push the envelop. I'm going to figure out what size journal I have when I get it apart. I don't know if grader engines were true WD, buy guessing it'll be the smaller journal. Not going to the shop today, it's too cold. Maybe pics on Wed evening.

 

[DrAllis]

WC-WF-WD-WD45 all use the same diameter main bearings. The D-17/170/175 and E Gleaner all use 3 inch diameter mains

 

[docmirror]

Here's some pics as req. Please note the sleeve and the o-ring on top. I've not done a sleeve and piston repl on these engines before. The box of stuff I got with the burn grader had four sleeves and pistons and a box of rings, and o-rings. I'm guessing that those o-rings will go somewhere, and when I get the old stuff off, I will know where they go. Not sure I have a full set of o-rings, if not I'll get some more.

First grader up I'll call the 'little D' as it has no scarifier, dual range trans, PS, hyd turntable, leaning wheels and the small tires. The propane tank of a D17 is just over the name of the grader.

The burnt unit actually runs, but burns a little oil. I didn't get much pics of the big unit with the Gleaner engine today as it's back in the rear of the shop and it's dark. Two pics of the blue Gleaner engine. I'll try to get some later.

I also have a S1 D17 with a good propane engine. I'm considering putting the propane engine from the D17 into the burnt unit. I have 9x20 good tires and rims for that and it has more features that will make a better grader when done. I can also have it over to the sand blaster shop when the burn engine is out and get it cleaned up for repaint. Note the rear hub weights. Fill the rear tires with fluid, and with those weights, and the dual range trans, it should cut ground quite well. Also has PS and leaning.