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Electrical problem on 8N


 
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scmortensen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:19 pm    Post subject: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am new to this forum. My father recently passed away and I am trying to figure out a problem with his old Ford either 9N or 8N tractor. He was 90 years old and thought it was a 39 9N, but from photos on this site I think it may be a 49 8N. In any case...I replaced the 6 V battery and the tractor started right up. However, I saw a trickle of smoke from the push starter switch. I touched the button and it felt hot. I disconnected the battery. So, I could just replace the push start and see if that solves the problem...but I thought better to ask for some expert advise. I would appreciate any thoughts on this.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-scmortensen wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:19:18 06/09/21) I am new to this forum. My father recently passed away and I am trying to figure out a problem with his old Ford either 9N or 8N tractor. He was 90 years old and thought it was a 39 9N, but from photos on this site I think it may be a 49 8N. In any case...I replaced the 6 V battery and the tractor started right up. However, I saw a trickle of smoke from the push starter switch. I touched the button and it felt hot. I disconnected the battery. So, I could just replace the push start and see if that solves the problem...but I thought better to ask for some expert advise. I would appreciate any thoughts on this.
where is the start switch that you felt hot located? Where on the tractor?
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

STOP! DON'T DO ANYTHING MORE. You have something incorrectly wired. Get The ESSENTIAL MANUALS and read them and the forums and archives for Ford tractor systems. Model year is unimportant. The 9N & 2N had a 3-SPD trans, DRAFT control only, different steering and charging setup. The 8N introduced a 4-SPD trans, POSITION control, new steering, and a new electrical charging system. ALL FORD 9N, 2N, and early 8Ns use the front mount distributor and Ballast Resistor. ALL FORDs used the 6V/POS GRN electrical setup, BUT, just because you have a 6V battery do not assume it is wired correctly for the 6V/POS GRN setup. By replacing parts without first troubleshooting is a common mistake by newbies. Did you get the battery tested at a shop? 8N Starter Motor uses a 3-Wire Solenoid. Note that all major components were designed to be rebuilt over and over and should be your first course of action if and when a part needs fixing. New stuff made in Cheena today is mostly junk. The starter motor, generator, carb, gov, and more can be rebuilt as good as new.

In addition to the front mount dist, the 9N/2N used a 1-Wire/3-Brush GEN and the roundcan cutout. the 8N introduced a better GEN, the 3-Wire/3-Brush unit,with a rectangular 3-TERM Voltage Regulator. These are the important points to look for and document, again, forget about a model year. The front mount dist is a bit tricky getting the points set and timed, tested, and mounted correctly. There is but one correct way to mount it. Get it off 180 DEG and you bust the base at power on. Likewise new batteries can be junk out the door depending on where you buy from. Bargain House parts are the usual suspects.

You local trusty starter/alternator shop guy can bench test all your electrical parts, usually for free. If any test defective, he can rebuild them to OEM specs if he knows what he is doing, knows old Fords. The battery should have been tested first. If weak or dead on his test machine, then can buy a new, 6V is a GRP 1 AG style, but avoid the cheaper makes and the golf cart or Deep Cycle units. FACT: 99.98% of all non-starting problems are due to mucked up wiring. ESSENTIAL MANUALS are the best investments you can make with your new tractor. The OEM 8N Operator's Manual, the I&T FO-4 Manual, and the 39-53 MPC are the most important ones to get. There is another document you should have too and that is the WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR. It has all the correct ways to wire these N's in both 6V and 12V setups. I'd start there. Disconnect the lights if you have them. Lights were not factory installed. Can reconnect after you get to the true root cause problem and fix it. There is a lot more to the electrical system than just the 6V battery.

The OEM 6V/POS GRN system for a front mount 8N uses: 3-Wire/3-Brush 11 AMP, 'A' Circuit GENERATOR with the belt tensioner; a 3-TERM Voltage Regulator; a 3-Wire Starter Motor with a Solenoid; Ballast Resistor; Ammeter; 6V coil; IGN Key Switch; safety starter pushbutton; and all correctly wired. Verify all wiring before battery is connected. If you rebuild distributor to specs and be sure it is mounted correctly. Once all pass, then can connect the battery but will need to do some basic testing before you crank over power.


FORD 8N TRACTOR WIRING DIAGRAMS:
PRIOR TO S/N 8N-263844:





FORD N-TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR:



HOW TO SET TIMING:


RESULTS WHEN UNIT IS MOUNTED 180 OFF:



FORD 8N-SERIES TRACTOR OEM 6V/POS GRN WIRING PICTOGRAM:


*PICTOGRAMS courtesy of JMOR

FORD OEM BALLAST RESISTOR -USED ONLY WITH FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR:



HELP: The LH resistor Terminal Post connects to the COIL Stud Terminal Post as you face the back off dash. OEM Wiring is RED.


FORD TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR FIRING ORDER; 1,2,4,3 CCW:



Breaker Points/Front Mount = .015; Spark Plugs Champion H12 or AUTO-LITE 437 14mm gap at .025-.028; Firing Order: 1, 2, 4, 3 CCW.



FORD 8N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:


Tim Daley(MI)
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is important to know whether you have 9N/2N or an 8N because starter activation is different.

9N/2N has a slanted push button in front of gear shift that pushes an extension rod that activates a mechanical switch located in front of steering gear.

8N has a vertical push button beside the gear shift that grounds one side of a relay coil, usually mounted on the starter, to activate the starter
 
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scmortensen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The push start button is located on the dash to the left of the steering column.
 
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scmortensen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The tractor was running fine for the last two years. It had just been sitting for the last month. I went to start it and it had a dead battery. I tried jumping it and no go. I know it has a positive ground. (and I put the neg jumper cable and charge wire to the positive ground) I also tried charging the battery. Maybe I fried something when I went to jump it, or charge it.

I took the battery in and they said the battery was shot. Bought a new battery and the tractor started right up...just the trickle of smoke and the hot push start.
 
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Jim L WA
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With a start button on the dash, sounds like an early 9N. Although it may have been added later. How many forward gears does the transmission have?
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

scmortensen wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:24:43 06/10/21)
The tractor was running fine for the last two years. It had just been sitting for the last month. I went to start it and it had a dead battery. I tried jumping it and no go. I know it has a positive ground. (and I put the neg jumper cable and charge wire to the positive ground) I also tried charging the battery. Maybe I fried something when I went to jump it, or charge it.

I took the battery in and they said the battery was shot. Bought a new battery and the tractor started right up...just the trickle of smoke and the hot push start.
" (and I put the neg jumper cable and charge wire to the positive ground)". "Maybe I fried something when I went to jump it, or charge it.
".....probably at least a battery! ALWAYS positive to positive and negative to negative! Don't even think about "ground".
 
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scmortensen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote


No wonder it didn't start. Looks like I will just have to start checking wires. Thanks.
 
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mr.precision
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Negative to negative and positive to positive always. Don't worry about the grounds.
Bet you cooked something by reversing the jump start battery.
 
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scmortensen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mr.precision wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:43:29 06/10/21)
Negative to negative and positive to positive always. Don't worry about the grounds.
Bet you cooked something by reversing the jump start battery.


Yep. I will start with the push button and work my way back. Thanks for the help fellas.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical problem on 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

scmortensen wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:00:15 06/10/21)
mr.precision wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:43:29 06/10/21)
Negative to negative and positive to positive always. Don't worry about the grounds.
Bet you cooked something by reversing the jump start battery.


Yep. I will start with the push button and work my way back. Thanks for the help fellas.


 
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