Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest


 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dusty Drake
New User


Joined: 18 Apr 2021
Posts: 18


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi All!

I'm coming along nicely on restoring a 1968 MF 165 and recently split the tractor to install a new hydraulic pump. I reassembled the tractor and made the adjustments per the I&T Manual. Got it running and testing it out. During the final adjustments, Draft Control doesnt function at all - lower links do not raise no matter the position of the Draft Quadrant.

Briefly: Draft control does not work at all; Position control works but seems like it's out of adjustment as the lower links don't begin to rise until I'm 1/3 of the way up the quadrant (and I have the stop all the way back, have to move almost to Constant Pumping to raise fully to Transport Position.

Secondly, the hydraulics seem "weak" - that is, they won't lift full weight, and if too much weight is on there, the arms will go all the way back down. It will lift probably 250 - 350 pounds.

Tractor is a Perkins AD.203 Diesel with Live PTO, WITH Multipower, WITHOUT Pressure Control. Hydraulic Fluid is new, and correct (Permatran III.) Had some general fluid in it the first time around, to flush the system before filling with the good stuff and it definitely is better with the Permatran III.

Motion is slightly jerky on the way up, very smooth on the way down.

I HAVE NOT adjusted the Draft Control spring at all yet - I need to disassemble it. Tractor sat 8-10 years in the same spot so a bit rusted and I'm not looking forward to removing the set screw. But I WILL overhaul the Draft Control Spring soon. I needed the tractor operational to box blade some roads on a deadline and will dive back into disassembly when job is done.

I believe the pump is good - it is new from Steiner. I replaced the pressure relief valve on it with a 3,000 psi valve. Engine labors slightly under Constant Pumping mode, and I can hear the relief valve blow.

Questions: Can a weak draft control spring affect the operation of position control?

I searched the forum and found this EXCELLENT post by David P from some years ago, and I am referencing it in this post:

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1190320&highlight=165+hydraulic

Excerpting with my questions for clarification - the tractor in question HAD pressure control, mine does not.


David's Original Response:
Before going any further I would ask you to check back and ensure that all internal adjustments have been carried out accurately.

That briefly;
The inner quadrant plate was centred,
(David, what does this mean? The Inner Quadrant on mine is the position control quadrant - what is to be centered?)

Draft control rod screw adjusted to 0.170" OK Smile
Both adjustments using the dashpot wedge,feeler gauges and 3lb weights were carried out.
David, I used 5 lbs pressure not 3lbs - is this a critical error?
My dashpot plunger did not need to be forced to be extended - what workaround do you use for the MFN 163 wedge? A paper clip? Other ideas?


Quadrant stop moved as required.
David can you clarify? Is this meaning the transport position stop? FYI I used a ⅜ bolt for MFN 970.

Initial Pressure Control adjustment was carried out.
Yes.
Lift arm end-float adjustment.
David I dont seem to find this in the I&T manual nor the MF Repair Manual?

Since I do not have Pressure Control, I skipped the portion about the Lower Knurled Screw - I dont have one.

Also note, I did NOT use a Wedge on the Dashpot when making the upper Knurled Screw adjustment.

I did not attach weight to the lower links when making the Knurled Screw adjustment - I now have the weights to do so and will when re-adjusting.

I also did not attach a pressure gauge, nor did I screw the Upper Knurled screw in until the Control Lever began to Hunt - I actually found the screw a bit difficult to screw in all the way.

Releasing the Dashpot: Is the Adjustment Screw meant to secure the Dashpot Piston to the Dashpot Assembly until I release it? If so, I need to shorten the screw - it is too long to screw in all the way - pictures attached below.

David, any other advice for me here, esp. Given that I dont have Pressure Control and your response was for a tractor that did have it?

Thank you in advance David!








 
Back to top
View user's profile
DavidP,South Wales
Long Time User


Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 1017
Location: Wales, UK

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, Im reading through your questions and will answer as soon as
possible. DavidP
 
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Dusty Drake
New User


Joined: 18 Apr 2021
Posts: 18


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thank you David! Curious to know what part of South Wales you call home my Maternal great-grandparents emigrated to Northeast PA from Ystradgynlais!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
DavidP,South Wales
Long Time User


Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 1017
Location: Wales, UK

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, we are between Cardiff and Swansea. Ystradgynlais would be
about 30 miles to the west of us. Hope to get a reply to you this
evening. Currently 14.35 here. D
 
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
DavidP, South Wales
Tractor Expert


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 2595


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello,
When describing the operation of MF hydraulics to anyone I use two comparisons. Firstly the component parts of the system, the position of the three-
point linkage, the quadrant levers, the control spring and the pump control valve lever MUST all be 'talking' to eachother for the system to work
properly. Because there are very precise adjustments there is very little room for 'hit and miss' adjustment. The second comparison is that the system is
like a see-saw in balance. If you raise or lower the Position Control lever for example you briefly place the system out of balance. The resulting
respons of your lever positional change then activates the linkage until it returns to a position which is in balance or the 'neutral' position.
It really is essential to have the correct MF tools for the job. Again, the sector marks scribed in the quadrant plates are the datums that the system
works from which ensures the correct relationship between the hydraulic cover and the pump control valve.
Going through your questions;
Draft control does not work; correct adjustment not achieved.
Relative position of the Position Control lever to the lower arms rising; Adjustment.
Motion jerky; Adjustment, control valve not moving into the 'pumping' position fully.
Not adjusted the Draft Control spring; Adjustment of the stiffness of the spring and adjustment of the assembly end-float is critical as significant end-
float will prevent the control valve moving fully into the 'pumping' position. The control rod plunger frequently seizes inside the yoke and is likely to
require new parts. It MUST be adjusted so that the spring is stiff to turn by hand....no more....no less.
That you have a non-PC tractor makes the adjustments easier but no less critical.
The centering of the inner quadrant plate is for PC tractors only where the plate can be moved to give a final position for maximum lift on the system.
The 5lb weight used is incorrect. The correct 3lb weight applies the same pressure on the linkage as the spring in the control valve would.
The wedge is essential in order to be able to achieve the 002-004 clearance when adjusting. It also fits into the control valve lever for adjustment
when the cover is refitted.
The Transport stop is a small angle plate which for initial adjustment is moved forward to prevent the linkage locking up.
Main shaft end float; the bolts on the left hand side are adjusted to remove any end-float so that the cam on the ram-arm will remain in the same place
if there is werar present. They should be adjusted so that they just fall under their own weight.
A pressure gauge is not required for a non-PC tractor.
I have drawings of the MF tools required that can be made relatively easily with a bit of ingenuity which I can send to you if you would like them.
Please send me your email address.
Having been involved with almost solely MF for 43 years nearly every tractor still throws up a different challenge.
Let me know how you get on.
Regards
DavidP
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Dusty Drake
New User


Joined: 18 Apr 2021
Posts: 18


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thank you very much David! The hydraulics controls on this tractor have been a bit of a "black box" to me - your explanation helps clear up a lot for me!

My email address is: DonDrake3@gmail.com.

I look forward to the tool blueprints. I will pull the hydraulic cover and re-adjust, after rebuilding the draft spring assembly. May have a few questions on how to remove it LOL...

Thank you David for sharing your wealth of knowledge and decades of experience!!

Dusty
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Dusty Drake
New User


Joined: 18 Apr 2021
Posts: 18


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Hello again David! After a busy week of working with my 165 bushogging, I am ready to get back into the hydraulics. You were kind enough to offer sending me diagrams for the MF special tools for adjusting the hydraulic lift cover... Would you be so kind as to send? Email is DonDrake3@gmail.com

A follow up question; I am rebuilding the entire Draft Control Assembly - I've located and ordered replacement parts for all but the Control Spring Adjusting Screw (part # 355 286 m1) and Control Spring Adjusting Plug (part # 882 451 M1)

Should those prove to be difficult to remove, have you a workaround that could replace the screw and plug if they do not survive extraction?

Thank you David!
Sincerely,
Dusty
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters