Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

International Cub - no spark

Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mr.precision
Regular


Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 357


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Trying to help a neighbor get his 1959 Cub to run. A little background:
Was converted at some point to a 12v alternator (single wire) and battery.
Tractor sat for several years. Neighbor Installed new points, plugs, condenser, cap and rotor. He says the tractor ran for 10 minutes just fine, then died. Has fuel but no spark at the plugs and nothing at the points.

I measured resistance on the coil - 1.6 ohms. Have a feeling the coil is incorrect for a 12v system. There is no ballast resistor anywhere.

TSC points and condenser. I've heard that some of condensers out there are faulty when new.

Any suggestions from the community would be appreciated. Particularly about resistance on the correct coil and where to find quality condensers.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
jimtrs
Long Time User


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 635
Location: Sandown, NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mr.precision wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:57:16 11/23/21)
I measured resistance on the coil - 1.6 ohms. Have a feeling the coil is incorrect for a 12v system. There is no ballast resistor anywhere.

TSC points and condenser. I've heard that some of condensers out there are faulty when new.

Any suggestions from the community would be appreciated. Particularly about resistance on the correct coil and where to find quality condensers.

Yup, wrong coil, , though unlikely fried a coil in 10 minutes.

This is copied from a post I made about a month ago on the Tractor Talk board about coils:

Coils are designed to run on approx 4 amps of current. Much more than that and they overheat and will fail. Much less than 4 amps and you get a weak spark.

Amps = Volts / Ohms, or said another way, Volts / Ohms = Amps (This is one iteraration of Ohm's Law)

So, 12 (volts) dived by 3 (ohms of resistance) = 4 (amps of current) Good!

12 (volts) dived by 1.5 (ohms of resistance) = 8 (amps of current) Bad!

If you were to use a coil with 1.5 ohms of resistance in a 12 volt system, you would need to add about another 1.5 ohms of resistance. This is done by adding a resistor with that value in the circuit (between power supplying the coil and the coil itself)

A coil with 1.5 ohm's of resistance is designed for a 6 volt system
6 (volts) dived by 1.5 (ohms of resistance) = 4 (amps of current) Good!

Think approximate when figuring the amount of resistance needed, as voltage varies due to charging systems and other loads.

1.0 to 2.0 ohms of resistance is ok for a 6 volt coil,
2.5 to 4.0 ohms of resistance is ok for a 12 volt coil
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mr.precision
Regular


Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 357


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks, jimtrs.
He did mention that the coil was pretty hot to the touch when the motor died.
Ohms law.... makes sense.
So would the condenser fail due to these conditions? I did look st the points and they looked fine. Again, there is no current to the points, checking the post on the side of the distributor with the points closed.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 91368
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With the points close you should get a zero or close to zero volt reading since the points ground the system. With the points open you should read battery voltage
 
Back to top
View user's profile
grandpa Love
Tractor Guru


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 10937


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Napa parts.....

Got theses in several cubs. No issues.
Did your neighbor leave the switch on
when tractor died? Try an emory board
and file the points, then drag a
business card through them. Might also
try the old condenser......
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mr.precision
Regular


Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 357


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks to all for help.
My mistake - points open, still no voltage on the distributor post.
Yes neighbor may have left ignition on after motor died. Will take a another look at the points, as I would expect them to be burned up under conditions mentioned.
Thanks for the parts list. Beats going to TSC.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
grandpa Love
Tractor Guru


Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 10937


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Keep us posted!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
gene bender
Tractor Guru


Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 11464


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

quick fix just put the old condenser in and see if it runs dont need any fancy voltages.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mr.precision
Regular


Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 357


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Replaced points and condenser several times yesterday, originals, new replacements.... no spark at the points.
Bypassed switch by jumping current directly from the amp gauge to the + side of the coil. No difference.
Removed the coil and installed a used one with ballast resistor.... all test to 3.5 Ohms.... still nothing.
Can the distributor develop an internal short to ground? Sometimes I get 6 volts at the distributor post with the points open, then I get 1.5 or less when spinning the motor.
Any suggestions are appreciated. We are out of ideas here.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mr.precision
Regular


Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 357


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mr.precision wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:34:00 11/27/21) Replaced points and condenser several times yesterday, originals, new replacements.... no spark at the points.
Bypassed switch by jumping current directly from the amp gauge to the + side of the coil. No difference.
Removed the coil and installed a used one with ballast resistor.... all test to 3.5 Ohms.... still nothing.
Can the distributor develop an internal short to ground? Sometimes I get 6 volts at the distributor post with the points open, then I get 1.5 or less when spinning the motor.
Any suggestions are appreciated. We are out of ideas here.

Forgot to mention that the distributor dust cover is missing. Owner claims it has been gone a long time. I don't think that would impact the point of contact with the rotor and cap, but thought worth mentioning.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Jim.ME
Tractor Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 5229


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What are you setting the point gap at, with the rubbing block on a distributor cam high point? Have you cleaned the contacts of the points? Fold a dollar bill or piece of brown pager up and rub it between the closed point contacts to clean any film and oil off them. Sometimes that is all it takes, even on new points right out of the box. Feeler gauges can introduce a film as well.

To check the electric side, I'd start by checking the basics, using a test light and continuity tester, not a VOM at this point, to confirm continuity, and not worry about ohm readings to start with.

Is power steady at the + and - terminals of the coil when the key is on and the distributor primary lead wire unhooked from the - terminal of the coil?

With the points open, check continuity from the coil end wire terminal of the primary lead wire that goes into the distributor, to the distributor body. There should be no continuity.

With the points closed, check continuity from the coil end wire terminal of the wire going to the distributor to the distributor body. There should be continuity.

Hook the distributor primary lead wire back to the coil - terminal. Use the test light between the coil's - terminal a ground point on the engine block. The light should flash when the engine is cranking over, if the points and condenser are working. (If you tried this with a voltmeter it might not be reacting quick enough to give you a meaningful result.)

The results of those checks may shed some light on what is or isn't happening.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 91368
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

New condenser could be bad. Now days it is a 50/50 chance it is bad. New points at times have a coating that needs to be cleaned off. I use the flap on the box they come in to clean them. If you have the points open what is the voltage at the distributor side of the coil?? If close to zero you have a short some place like maybe the insulator going in the side of the distributor
 
Back to top
View user's profile
gene bender
Tractor Guru


Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 11464


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

First is the TSC parts get them from NAPA
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Jim.ME
Tractor Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 5229


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-gene bender wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:16:10 11/28/21) First is the TSC parts get them from NAPA


Posts indicate several parts swaps. Even if they are TSC something should have at least tried to go. Time for step by step checks and diagnosis, before throwing more parts at it. It reads like he could have something other than just part quality issues.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mr.precision
Regular


Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Posts: 357


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: International Cub - no spark Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As it is so often, there were two problems.
-The ignition switch had intermittent continuity. Contacts were cleaned and one wire replaced from ammeter to switch.
- Installed another distributor cap and the thing fired right up.

Yes, had it been mine I would have gotten it running without introducing a bunch of variables by throwing parts at it. But it isn't my project and I was only trying to help a neighbor who is not internet friendly.

Engine smokes pretty bad and hydraulic lift doesn't work, so on to the next diagnosis. Thanks to the community for providing constructive suggestions.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Farmall & International Harvester (IHC) All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters