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Alternative to winter fuel

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wsmm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:00 am    Post subject: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I posted earlier about my 2N being a problem to start in the cold weather in mid-Michigan. One of the answers was to switch to a winter fuel. Unfortunately I don't use my 2N that much and can't afford to throw out a lot of summer or fall blend fuel. Is there any additive, that works, that I could add to improve the cold weather starts and running. During the winter I normally only use the 2N to remove snow banks around if we get a lot of snow.
Thanks,
Bill
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Drain it out and put it in your car. Mixed w/ what's already in there, it will be fine.
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You are over thinking this way too much. Do standard PM in the fall when it is warmer out - fresh oils, a good strong battery on a float charger, fresh full gas tank, and if you want, heaters on it. I'm in mid-MICHIGAN and never used heaters, stored N's in pole barn, unheated. Kept up with PM and they always started. The best thing you can do is keep the battery ready to go. Since you say you don't use your 2N that much in winter, a Battery Tender is you best friend no matter what time of year.

Tim Daley(MI)
 
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Btzj02
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Tim PloughNman Dal wrote:
(quoted from post at 04:10:19 11/25/21) a Battery Tender is you best friend no matter what time of year.

Tim Daley(MI)


Agreed and don't forget to check battery fluid levels along with your maintenance.
 
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Dean
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bingo.

That's what I do.

Dean
 
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Dean
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No snake oil for this issue.

Dean
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You can put whatever fuel you want in it, your machine. In the old days farmers ran whatever they had handy, No gas? Use kerosene, ethanol, moonshine, etc. Personally I don't believe in winter/summer/spring/fall blends. How does one prove they are different and that they run better or different? SHOW ME THE DATA! You certainly don't need to waste your money on an 'additive' snake oil product, Stabil for a popular one, --- which is what they ALL are. They all use 99% plain Mineral Spirits as their main ingredient - paint thinner and charcoal lighter fluid. You doubt? Get the MSDS info for any product and read the label and ingredients. Mineral Spirits will thin out the gas, and is safe to use internally so that is why they all use it. It is an excellent cleaner/dissolver. Do your homework dude. Basic PM, fresh fluids, tuneup every fall and a good, strong battery will work just fine in cold weather. The system has worked well for 80 years like this. My opinions but based on facts.

TPD
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Lots of data out there on the subject.

https://www.gasbuddy.com/go/summer-blend-and-winter-blend-gasoline
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Yes Virginia there is a difference between winter and summer diesel and gasoline engine fuels. Both are reformulated for optimal performance based on the seasonal ambient temperatures and that reformulation does make a difference in starting and running. There is enough data on the details to fill a small library - all you have to do is look.

TOH
 
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Btzj02
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:54:06 11/26/21)
Yes Virginia there is a difference between winter and summer diesel and gasoline engine fuels. Both are reformulated for optimal performance based on the seasonal ambient temperatures and that reformulation does make a difference in starting and running. There is enough data on the details to fill a small library - all you have to do is look.

TOH

True that. The major difference is that the gasoline winter blend has a higher RVP then the summer blend. The RVP is a battle between environmental issues and easier starting in the winter. RVP, Read Vapor Pressure is increased by adding light ends to gasoline. Mainly, winter gas has more butane in it to help with starting. With all that said, the gas tank on the 8N is vented so those light ends can whether off if the tractor sits for months. I do use stabil when storing the old girl for the winter and she starts right up every April.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Btzj02 wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:51:52 11/26/21)
TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:54:06 11/26/21)
Yes Virginia there is a difference between winter and summer diesel and gasoline engine fuels. Both are reformulated for optimal performance based on the seasonal ambient temperatures and that reformulation does make a difference in starting and running. There is enough data on the details to fill a small library - all you have to do is look.

TOH

True that. The major difference is that the gasoline winter blend has a higher RVP then the summer blend. The RVP is a battle between environmental issues and easier starting in the winter. RVP, Read Vapor Pressure is increased by adding light ends to gasoline. Mainly, winter gas has more butane in it to help with starting. With all that said, the gas tank on the 8N is vented so those light ends can whether off if the tractor sits for months. I do use stabil when storing the old girl for the winter and she starts right up every April.
.........and likely would if you skipped it.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Regarding performance differences.......again, plenty of data out there. Here is one article:

Despite those higher prices, summer gasoline contains about 1.7 percent more energy than winter gasoline. Warmup times aside, thats why you could measure reduced fuel economy outside the summer months. Winter gasoline varies widely in volatility throughout the season. Refiners constantly adjust their RVP to as high as 15 psihigher than sea-level atmospheric pressure, which is 14.7 psito help the gasoline ignite more easily in colder temperatures. The vapor pressure varies by month, region, and octane. In frigid temperatures, higher-volatility fuel is essential and does not cause the smog effect it would in the summer. Using low-RVP fuel is a nonstarter in freezing weather; the engine wont turn over or might misfire.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15339380/the-vapor-rub-summer-versus-winter-gasoline-explained/
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Dean
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not so.

Such was once the case many decades ago but things have changed since the EPA took control of everything.

These days one needs winter formula fuel in the tank (and carburetor) for reliable starting (even with good compression, ignition, technique, etc.) in cold weather.

Do your homework, dude.

Dean
 
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Den N Ms
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Winter- and Summer-Blend Gas
A primary difference between winter- and summer-blend gas is their Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP). RVP is a measure of how easily the fuel evaporates at increased temperatures.

The higher the fuels RVP, the more easily it evaporates.

Winter-blend fuel requires increased RVP. If the fuel doesnt evaporate readily in cold temperatures, the engine will start hard and run rough when its cold outside.

To achieve this, refiners often blend winter gasoline with BUTANE, a relatively inexpensive additive with a high RVP. They adjust the RVP of the final formulation to as high as 15.0 psi to help the gasoline ignite readily in the cold.
Filling car with gas
The law promotes summer-blend gas

Once the temperature warms up in summer, however, high-RVP gasoline can volatilize more easily, which contributes to increased emissions and air pollution.

For that reason, federal law restricts sales of gasoline with an RVP greater than 9.0 from June 1 through Sept. 15.

To comply, refiners reduce the amount of butane in the gasoline and instead use pricier additives, hence one reason gas prices generally increase in summer.
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Alternative to winter fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote

whatever Mary
 
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