Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

shale rock removal


 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jboettcher
Guest






Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: shale rock removal Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm doing a small job for my brother. Removing some thron trees (no big deal). Now I'm levaling some ground which is primarly shale rock. Big rock. I'm not going to bite off more than my JD555A Crawler Loader can handel but I'm concerned about wear & tear. Shoukld I be? This is a free job with him paying for all fuel, oil & grease. No problem there but is shale rock busting something I should not do with my equipment? Anyone with expearence doing this work please reply.


Myassitis from Missouri

 

Back to top
Billy NY
Guest






Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: shale rock removal Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You will probably get some varying responses, and although you say the conditions on the job are shale, just leveling etc., it still falls within a category of work that can definitely be hard on a track type tractor such as your crawler loader.

It's hard to give accurate advice without seeing the job, and the conditions, but depending on how dense the shale is and whether or not it's decayed enough to fracture easily or not, is really the determining factor in my humble opinion. The conditions can vary greatly.

Does your JD have a ripper on it, multi shank or single ? If not, all you have is the bucket, which I hope have teeth, extreme service type would be good. Somehow you have to fracture it to excavate the material. Many jobs I've been on we used a larger tractor like a D8K with a single shank ripper, to fracture the material. Sometimes you get to a point where either it gets too hard or you can't use the grain of it to your advantage. Other times, it's just a lot of passes to fracture, then push it out. We have a lot of shale here, some can be dealt with by ripping, other areas, it gets too hard to deal with, eventually have to drill and blast. The D8K is a heavy machine, but seemed well balanced for this as the blade and ripper seem to balance things out on the track frames, did not seem to slip too much in the material I've worked in. I've ripped some real hard rock with an 8K and it's not a fun ride, and production can be very low, abuse to the tractor increases, even if you take your time and use care.

If your crawler loader has typical multi bar track shoes that a crawler loader has, you may find track slippage might increase, especially when engaging hard material with the bucket, you may lift the front end while applying enough down pressure force to break it up. You may be able to fracture it or just scratch the surface, won't know until you give it a try. Many of the guys who work on these might be able to tell you what they see on ones that have done a lot of this work, hard on the undercarriage, final drives, and there can be much more vibration. Even with a ripper, it's hard work for a tractor.

Not sure how deep the excavation is, if just leveling, and the top layers are not hard to fracture, give it a try, you might be surprised but if you are going deep and it gets harder below, smart to know when to walk away, many foreman would push until the shank and teeth on the ripper shank were failing quite often before deciding to blast, some of those jobs, just the ride alone, you wanted the day to end soon.

 

Back to top
Dale(MO)
Guest






Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: shale rock removal Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you around Owensville, MO? I know there are a lot of Boettchers in that area, along with a lot of shale. If it is green shale, it should come out easily, especially if it is wet. The green shale in that area is almost like fire clay when wet. Even when dry, it should chunk up pretty easily. How much you can remove depends on how thick the layer is - you probably won't move any of the rock under it, although the limestone up there is pretty soft.

If it is white shale, it should move pretty well, but will be harder to tell if it's shale or rock - not just in color, but the white shale around this area tends to blend with the rock, and is not always in a defined layer.

Or, if you're not in the Owensville area, I have probably just wasted your time, although shale is usually shale in Missouri.

Hope this helps,
Dale(MO)

 

Back to top
jim boettcher
Guest






Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: shale rock removal Reply to specific post Reply with quote

THANKS TO EVERYONE ON THIER REPLYS. TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS:

NO TO RIPPER. JUST A BUCKET. WISH I HAD A 4-1.
I THINK THE BEST REPLY WAS KNOWING WHEN TO BACK OFF AND STOP. THE DEEPER I GET THE LARGER THE CHUNKS ARE. WE ARE BUILDING A SHORT ROAD TO HIS MACHIEN SHOP AND WISH TO GET DEEP ENOUGH TO DRAIN PROPERLY. WE ARE ALSO LEVELING OUT AN AREA (SIDE OF HILL)TO PARK EQUIPMENT. I'M NOT A CONTRACTOR AND THE 555A HAS WORKED WELL FOR MOST JOBS BUT I DO THINK I'M INTERESTED IN A DOZER. HARD TO BUILD A ROAD ON A SIDE OF HILL WITHOUT TILT OPTION ON BLADE/BUCKET.

I'M FROM NORTH EAST LINCOLN COUNTY AROUND FOLEY/ELESBERRY AREA. RIGHT ON THE MISSISSIPPI.
JUST PLAIN GREY/WHITE SHALE AND LIMESTONE. WE ARE THE ONLY BOETTCHER'S. DAD FROM WISCONSON AND HIS FROM GERMANY. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF A D4?

MYASSITIS FROM MISSOURI

 

Back to top
Billy NY
Guest






Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: shale rock removal Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like the material is not as bad as I thought, but getting into large chunks, that can be rough work. At least you've gotten into it already, definitely always worth seeing what you can do with a machine, but like I said, it's also smart to recognize when you need something better suited for the work, no sense in hammering what you own, I'll bet it's a handy machine to have, I've done a lot of work with the Cat 977L and 955.
It can be more difficult to get a cut going the way you want it when you don't have tilt, and the track frames are fixed, don't contour to the the ground when uneven, not sure but would think the 555 has fixed track frames. That would not matter so much in nice material, and in general but it's a contributing factor, you can use logs, old timbers, to get one side higher, and get a cut started with some pitch if needed, but tilt on a dozer with side push arms, oscillating track frames, like the older Cat's would be ideal for side hill work in the conditions you describe if it's hard to keep the cut flat as you are working. Everyone has a preference on things like this when it comes to excavation, and although sometimes a crawler loader is not the most efficient means, sometimes it just takes a lot longer, but if you hook onto ledge, buried chunks etc. that don't budge, remember those loader arms, really not meant for that abuse, at least in my opinion. Just don't dig in against one and try and push one out if it's a real tough one, better to dig around it, loosen things up first, I've been put on rock and mud jobs with D4's and D3's, moved rocks bigger than the machine, just have to take your time, unburying them can be a real chore.

D4 - older or late model, I had a new D4G out on rental a few years ago, was a nice strong machine, great on fuel. One thing to consider, is that when working in that material, a 6 way blade really is not meant for that kind of abuse, better for grading and cutting loose or clean material, something with side push arms mounted off the track frames will stand up to the abuse much better, when you catch a corner of the blade onto one of those chunks and are trying to push it out, that can transfer a lot of forces to the blade assembly, also depends on how far the operator pushes it. I tore a tilt cylinder out of it's pin bushing on a D6 once, working in excavated rocky fill, it pin/bushing was worn out, and I had just caught a large rock too much to one side, so the weak spot failed, had I been in dirt, probably would have lasted years. Even being a careful operator, respecting the machine you are using, it happens, the nature of the game.

You might check into the local rental houses, see what they have available, especially if the 555A serves most of your needs otherwise, and if the dozer will only get used on this job. Would be nice to have a ripper, I'd be curious to see the results of using one on your job, sounds like a larger tractor with one could really tear up the material well in that area.

 

Back to top
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders and Backhoes All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters