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One more thought, then I'm done

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flying belgian
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am a full time farmer and make my living raising corn so I want to like ethanol, I really do want to. But why don't they power these ethanol plants with ethanol? Oil industry powers there refineries with oil. If ethanol were the better deal then oil ind. would use it to power there refineries and ethanol would use it to power their own plants. OK I'm ready.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I believe the cost of heat from natural gas or coal is much lower than the opportunity cost of not selling the ethanol.
 
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Dick2
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As far as I could tell, the whole ethanol thing started with a bunch of scam artists (several of them went to jail, but most escaped with the money and no jail time).

It's pretty similar to the CNG hoax foisted on the public. ADOT put in a pumping station and converted quite a few vehicles. The engines ran poorly, had the nasty habit of dying in the middle of the intersection when taking off after a red light - and the darn vehicles couldn't be made to pass emissions tests!!

When politics takes over, common sense and the laws of physics go out the window.

Whenever I am in a state with high ethanol content, my mileage takes a serious dip.
We need something better than ethanol.
 
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wvfarmboy54
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

corn is cattle feed . not to make lousy gas out of. farmers feed the world let the oil barrons provide the gas kinda tired of replacing fuel pumps that are gumed up or stuck from sorry gas
 
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Frankmn
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have made that comment on here a couple of times. I believe the answer is there would be nothing left to sell
 
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TomH in PA
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

People confuse actual price with subsidized price.

How many times have you heard people talk about how cheap electricity is when generated with solar panels or windmills because the State and Federal subsidies made the panels/windmills so cheap? That doesn"t make the electricity cost effective, it just forces someone else to pay for it (think taxpayers). Same with ethanol.
 
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rrlund
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yea,and the solar panel factories would get their electric power from solar panels,but what are you gonna do.
 
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Mike (WA)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bingo. Different fuels for different purposes- you can put ethanol in a tank for vehicle fuel, but not so with natural gas or coal, at least on a practical basis.

And you corn guys really need to try harder to like ethanol. Or two dollar corn. Take your pick.
 
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heavyhaulertoo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You still feed the cattle with the wet feed after the process is done. I don"t know why some people can"t see that.
 
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WGM
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Oil companies power their refineries with natural gas. They can"t afford the oil either.
 
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dino in iowa
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No one on this forum knows the answer to Why Ethanol, or Why to solar, or Why to wind, but on and on come some explanations of the source.
I know when the best brains in the world will tell you we don't know until time tested procedures, are proven the best which fuel will be the one - is still unknown even in time, maybe not our time. But transportation as we know it, will change. Why some one would claim to know all about ethanol, is beyond belief, when they use this product to begin research. Bill Gates claims many things can be used. It is still unknown. AS we speak, Arizona will charge, for solar power going back into the grid. When the general public finds out what the masses needs we will have the power issue solved.
 
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Phil in Pa
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That's a great explanation. I'll be using that one.
 
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paul
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Oil refineries use natural gas, just as all big consumers of stationary heat do. You always take a lower value, less dense fuel to make heat, and use the higher valued fuels, ethanol, gasoline, diesel, bio diesel, as transportation fuel with their very high weight/volume to energy ratios.

It would be foolish to use these fuels to just make more of the same fuels.

The new versions of ethanol plants are planning to start using corn stover to make cellulosic ethanol, in addition to the ethanol from grain. They plan to use the residue of the stover to create heat. This would do what you say, basically use the corn stalks to cook the ethanol.

Just as you want.

Will it work, I donno, only a couple of pilot plants are being set up now to work out the bugs. You would gather corn, corn stalks. Ferment the corn, ferment the stalks in a different bin. Distill out the ethanol from both using the heat from burning the used up cornstalks. Sell ethanol from both, sell ddg from the corn side, and use the ash from the cornstalk side for a low level fertilizer.

Paul
 
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IH2444
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TomH in PA wrote:
(quoted from post at 03:59:59 11/28/13) People confuse actual price with subsidized price.

How many times have you heard people talk about how cheap electricity is when generated with solar panels or windmills because the State and Federal subsidies made the panels/windmills so cheap? That doesn"t make the electricity cost effective, it just forces someone else to pay for it (think taxpayers). Same with ethanol.


Oil is subsidized with our childrens lives. Would we be in the middle east if not for oil?
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: One more thought, then I'm done Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think ethanol was originally added to gasoline to reduce pollution, and I think that is a justifiable reason to use 10%, but any more than that is not feasible.
 
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