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Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right carb?

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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right carb? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Howdy,

I need a rebuilt carb for my Ford Tractor.

Please let me know, does this tractor take the:

Marvel Shebler TSX813 or the TSX580 or? The studs on the mounting flange appear to be 2 11/16's center to center.

Since there are mismatched parts on this tractor, I want to make sure I get the right one. It currently has a Marvel-Schebler.

Now here is the dilemma I am facing:

According to the number's:
Engine: C0NN6015J Gas Motor
Tractor: 40303 - 167200

I should have a 2000 to 4000 series tractor made in 1963. According to this page: http://www.oldfordtractors.com/idhistory.htm

First number (1 digit)
4**** - 172 ci gas, LP-gas or 172 ci diesel engine
Second number (1 digit)
*0*** - Industrial models produced prior to 1963
**30 * - Utility-type tractor w/non-adjustable front axle (light industrial)
Last number (1 digit)
*0**3 - Four-speed w/hydraulics and PTO

But it has a 5 speed transmission, pto drive with hydraulics, and someone mounted what looks like an 800 series hood on it. Is it a mongrel?

I used the Marvel Schebler TSX 813 Carb rebuild kits without any luck. And want to buy a rebuilt carb that is the right one for this tractor. Besides, I think some of the parts are missing inside this carb, or it isnt a TSX 813 - since some things arent in the carb that are in the instructions I have been able to find.

It has 1400 24TG Tires rear tires and 16" front 245/75 16r tires and they seem to fit right if that might be yet another clue.

Thanks in advance if you can help me out.


Here is a link to a few images and basically everything I said above.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vy6oZOsVqUqvqJpl2

Here is a post on my blog that has the images if you cant get to the google link:

http://danspec.com/616/ford-tractor-4000-is-this-marvel-schebler-the-right-carb-for-this-motor-and-please-help-identify-the-rest-of-the-parts-thanks-in-advance-for-any-help/

p.s:
dang, I just noticed I could upload images. But 15 in a single post might get me in trouble. And Im very new here. Please let me know Admins if this post violates any rules and I will modify it.
thanks, Dan.
 
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russ1
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There should be a number stamped on the carb. That would tell you which kit you need.
 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks Russ for the speedy reply Russ,

I did look for the number, but the little brass tag is gone. And Im not entirely sure this carb is the one that came with this motor. And, Im still stumped as to why the serial says it should have a 4 speed and it has a 5 speed. Kinda wonder if it was just throw together with parts from a few other tractors.
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum Dan.
Did you get that serial number off the transmission?
Just aft of and above the starter on the flat?
If so, you may want to double check it.
Lots of parts get changed over the years, but it would seem odd
that the transmission designation would be wrong on the trans
itself. Unless you're counting reverse as a "speed".

The original carb would have been a Marvel Schebler, but without
checking my books I'm not sure which one it would have been.
They're fine carbs and can be rebuilt as needed.
If you don't have any luck rebuilding it, I rebuild them.
Here are a couple of pictures of ones I've done.
I would also be willing to help you rebuild your own.




 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Royse,

Yes I did get 40303 - 167200 from right above the starter mount on the transmission.

Here is a compilation of pictures I took of the tractor:



This is the top of the transmission (sorry for the size of these images - I just got a new phone):



And here is a shot from under the seat:



Left side - rear:



And a view from the left side:



And please do contact me Royse through my website or via pm here so we can discuss the rebuild.

My fear is buying a new carb without the correct linkage - or not the right one. I was told once this was a 8N, so I went and bought a carb - well of course it didnt fit :-/. I will be selling or trading that off soon.

This was my dad's tractor and he used to have me run a brush hog, disc and try to grade with it's 3 in 1 back when I was younger. He is gone now, and I would really like to get this tractor running again.

Thanks for responding!

Sincerely,

Dan
 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ya know, I was thinking. I remember back when my father restored this. He said he had the hydraulics rebuilt along with the motor.

Then it was painted Blue and white.

I wonder if some part swapping went on back then. The guy who did the rebuild was an good ol tractor guru that is gone now.

But working on these Ford tractors was his passion, and Im sure he had a tractor graveyard to dig through for parts.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I don't think there to many mixed up parts on that tractor.
Air filter and fuel line have been modified, converted to 12 volt alternator, but the rest of the tractor I believe is correct.

Serial number makes it a 62 model
4030 makes it a 4000 industrial with non adjustable front axle
60-61-62 industrials where given the thousand series numbering but where still made with -01 series style hood and grill painted red and buff
As for the last 3 in the model numbers I think there's a mistake in the code listing
The listing says the 3 stands for 4 spd with hydraulics and pto
The photo clearly shows a 5 spd with a low clutch pedal indicating it does not have live pto.
There are 2 listings for 5 spd with live pto but no listing for 5 spd with transmission pto.
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Message sent.
 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks guys!
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ha! I don't think there are any rules about the amount of pictures posted in a thread. You gave us some really good close-ups of the subject too. My Marvel-Schebler / Borg-Warner Carburaetor Manual shows the Ford p/n CONN9510C and CONN9510G CARB, MODEL # TSX-813 used on the 4000.

Tim Daley(MI)
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is possible that the transmission was replaced at some point and whoever replaced it stamped the old numbers into the new transmission even though they replaced a 4 speed with a 5 speed.

The parts site shows that the 4030 light industrial 4000 series tractor made from 61-62 was only made with a 4 speed or Select-O-Speed transmission, so the 5 speed had to have been swapped in later at some point.

The later 4130 light industrial made from 1963-1964 does have a 5 speed listed in the parts drawings, but not the earlier 4030.
 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks again for all the replies guys!

The 5 speed is nice. I used to drive this tractor about 7 miles into town. Brush hog mow a lot, they drive back those 7 miles (uphill boths ways dont ya know Wink).

Then hook up the disc - drive back into town and disc that same lot.

That 5th gear was nice during those back and forth trips.

So, my tractor does have a pto - but I used to have to wait till the blades on the brush hog quit spinning to disengage it by pulling the lever and holding the clutch in if I remember right.

Can a live pto just be turned on and off while running - or - what is a live pto exactly if you dont mind me asking?
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"Can a live pto just be turned on and off while running"

No it can't. What you are describing here is "independent PTO"
You would find that on Fords of this era only if they had the Select-o-speed transmission.
"Live" PTO on these tractors had a dual clutch.
Let it up half way and the PTO would run, but the tractor didn't move.
Push the clutch down half way and the tractor would stop, but the
PTO would still run. Push it down all the way and all would stop.

If yours doesn't have the "live" PTO, then when you let the clutch
up the PTO will start spinning as the tractor starts moving.
They are not separated at all since you would have a single clutch.
BTW, the single clutch is a lot cheaper!
 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks all for the advice everyone, and I want to give a big shout out to Royse the Tractor Guru, he helped me out with my carb and to be honest he is a true professional.

If your a newbie and Royse offers to help you with a tractor issue - this is a man you can trust plus all the other guys who love these old tractors and offer advice. I promise Royse and the others will save you hundreds of hours (or dollars when you buy the wrong parts) trying to figure out something on your own.

Today I drove this tractor about 2 miles to get tires put on the front, one tire had a broken bead so I had to asphalt road it in 3rd gear and focus on not letting the tire slip off the rim - but I made it to the tire shop.

Then after getting good tires on the front I drove it back 2 miles, and worked it for 4hrs grading compacted gravel all on less than 4.5 gallons of gas. My ol tractor just purred right along. It used to run 10 or 15 mins then die and not start. That is before Royse fixed me up.

30 years ago I used to work this tractor quite a bit doing weed abatement.. Well today, working it again - I felt 30 years younger!

WOOOT!

Thanks again Royse - your the man in my book!
 
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DanSpec
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford Tractor - 4000 Is this Marvel-Schebler the right ca Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok, now sorry to keep this going, but I have a few more questions, thanks in advance for any replies.

1. In the image below, what does the lever circled in red do?

2. If I drain the rear end, does that drain the tranny also. If so, do they all take 134 hydraulic oil or today's equivalent? Same question for the power steering unit, is 134 hydraulic oil ok for it, or is it special?

3. I have an ol dodge with a turbo cummins straight 6 - I prefer delo 400 10-40 in it. I live in the desert, but we havent had a good snowstorm here since around the time Roosevelt was in office, but it gets in the triple digits for weeks at a time in the summer.

Would Delo 400 10-40 be ok for this 172 Continental motor? As long as I remember we ran 30w valvoline in it. But the only single weight I can find locally is chevron supreme 30w. :-/


[/img]
 
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