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Is gas cutoff story la myth?

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Roy Warren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:26 am    Post subject: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I?ve always heard that you should cut off the fuel cutoff when
you finish using the tractor or the gas will get into the oil pan
and contaminate the oil.
I find nothing in the manuals to support this. It seems it?s
purpose is so you can shut off the fuel so you can clean out
the sediment bowl.
Seems the floats in the carb would prevent flow to the carb
when it is full.
Also, I?m not sure how fuel could make its way to the oil pan
from the carb.
What do you think. As smart as Henry Ford was did he
overlook this?
 
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L.Fure
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:37 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Roy Warren wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:26:17 04/16/1Cool I?ve always heard that you should cut off the fuel cutoff when
you finish using the tractor or the gas will get into the oil pan
and contaminate the oil.
I find nothing in the manuals to support this. It seems it?s
purpose is so you can shut off the fuel so you can clean out
the sediment bowl.
Seems the floats in the carb would prevent flow to the carb
when it is full.
Also, I?m not sure how fuel could make its way to the oil pan
from the carb.
What do you think. As smart as Henry Ford was did he
overlook this?


It's not true. If it was a lot of engines would have been ruined by now. The only reason I ever shut the fuel off is to clean out sediment bowl, or if I have a known leak and don't want to lose any gasoline while the tractor is sitting unused.
 
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Dean
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I always turn off the fuel valve and allow the engine to consume the gasoline in the carburetor before turning off the ignition on gravity flow fuel systems.

Yes, a properly working float/needle valve/seat system will prevent fuel from overflowing the float bowl, but such systems are known to fail for various reasons. If the fuel flow control system in the carburetor fails, fuel will overflow the float bowl and either run out onto the ground or fill the intake manifold and run into the engine.

Why take such chance?

Dean
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No, it's not a myth.

See tip # 9.

" I find nothing in the manuals to support this."

Nor will you find anything in the manuals telling you not to have an open flame around the gas tank. Sometimes common sense prevails. Henry had a fuel cut-off on his 4.8 million Model A Fords from 1928 to 1931. He didn't need to tell tractor owners to cut the gas off; it was common sense.

This is one of the things that can happen if oil gets in the gas:

" We just had an 8N in the shop that the owner wanted us to fix the carb leak and replace the starter because the engine wouldn"t turn over. Turns out the base had more gas in it than oil and the bearings didn"t get enough lube from the diluted oil and seized the engine. I think of that tractor every time I park my tractors now and don"t forget to shut the fuel off."

(YT Post 10/10/07)
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's not a myth. What will happen if the needle valve sticks open?

" If it was a lot of engines would have been ruined by now. "

Well, some were.

Why take the chance?

This is one of the things that can happen if oil gets in the gas:

" We just had an 8N in the shop that the owner wanted us to fix the carb leak and replace the starter because the engine wouldn"t turn over. Turns out the base had more gas in it than oil and the bearings didn"t get enough lube from the diluted oil and seized the engine. I think of that tractor every time I park my tractors now and don"t forget to shut the fuel off."

(YT Post 10/10/07)
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WGM
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I do the same thing. It should always be done especially with downflow carburetors.
 
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Happened to me on a '45 2N. Resulted in a hydrolock and and contaminated gas in the crankcase.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Roy Warren wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:26:17 04/16/1Cool I?ve always heard that you should cut off the fuel cutoff when
you finish using the tractor or the gas will get into the oil pan
and contaminate the oil.
I find nothing in the manuals to support this. It seems it?s
purpose is so you can shut off the fuel so you can clean out
the sediment bowl.
Seems the floats in the carb would prevent flow to the carb
when it is full.
Also, I?m not sure how fuel could make its way to the oil pan
from the carb.
What do you think. As smart as Henry Ford was did he
overlook this?


Roy, it's not a matter of whether it's POSSIBLE for the carb inlet valve to fail to seat and run your gasoline out on the ground and possibly into the engine, as well. (Even though you haven't wrapped your mind around how the gasoline can find it's way to the crankcase, rest assured it CAN and WILL.)

It's a matter of WHEN that will happen. If you keep the tractor around long enough, sooner or later it WILL happen.

Closing the fuel tank valve is simply like insurance, you hope you never need it, but sooner or later you WILL.

And if the tractor happens to be in an enclosed area with a possible ignition source, the precaution of shutting of the fuel during periods of non-use could very well prevent a fire or explosion.
 
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flembo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a pretty good habit of turning it off, turning it back on is a different story, I can't count the times I get about 50' and it dies.
 
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Roy Warren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies
I?ve always done it religiously, but I?ve always wondered why. I?ll keep own doing it.
 
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tractorguy2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I shut the gas off on all my tractors and riding mowers. I've had more trouble with the mowers leaking gas into the crankcase than my tractors.
 
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Welding man
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One thing that the others have not mentioned is to be sure and always turn the gas off when hauling a tractor. The trailer bouncing will bounce the float in he carb and definitely cause it to flood.I have seen it happen many times.
 
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L.Fure
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


In all my years working around, and repairing, tractor engines have I ever experienced, or heard of, an engine filling up with gas due to a leaky needle valve. The only tractor engine I can think of that this would be possible is any two cylinder John Deere engine. If you feel it's a good idea to shut off the fuel valve when you are done using it, have at it. It certainly won't hurt anything.
 
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Indiana Ken
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Perhaps it helps to consider the difference in fuel systems used in tractors, motorcycles versus cars of the carburetor era.

- The N series tractors (and many others) use a gravity flow fuel system. In this system the fuel tank is located above the carburetor and fuel flows to the carburetor without the need for a fuel pump. If for any reason the float needle valve does not seal completely the entire contents of the fuel tank can be emptied. The N series carburetor has a vent to accommodate this leakage. If the vent works as intended the fuel leaks onto the ground rather than filling the engine cylinders/crankcase with fuel. However, you still have a mess and/or a fire hazard.

- Cars and trucks typically use a fuel tank mounted below the below the carburetor. This system requires the use of a fuel pump to push fuel to the carburetor. If for any reason the float needle valve does not seal completely the fuel remains in the fuel tank, since there is no pump operation to push it to the carburetor. No fuel leakage results as the vehicle sits.

- Motorcycles of this era also used a gravity flow fuel system with the fuel tank above the carburetor. The carburetors typically had an over flow pipe within the float bowl. In the event the fuel level increased above the open end of the pipe the fuel would be routed through an over flow hose to the ground. If all worked as intended the over flow fuel would not fill the engine cylinders/crankcase. However, you still have a mess and/or a fire hazard. Most manuals for motorcycles do contain a note, stating the fuel petcock must be shut off when the motorcycle is not in use.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Is gas cutoff story la myth? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" In all my years working around, and repairing, tractor engines have I ever experienced, or heard of, an engine filling up with gas due to a leaky needle valve. "

Well, now you have heard of it from multiple sources.
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