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UPDATE: TO-30 coil


 
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Jimmydog
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 am    Post subject: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi all,
Weather has been ghastly all week, rain off and on, temps cold to tropical. Rain off and on all day today so I thought I take few moments to update you all on the lack of progress I've been making. That and I don't want to PO Billy Shaver incase he lurks down here in this section.

So short version: spark, no bark, on to the next problem.
Long version: changed the coil with a new one from the fine folks that host this site. No spark. Pull distributor cap and notice something I should have caught sooner. The spring part of the points was touching the base plate it's mounted on. Possible shorted circuit? Corrected that condition, hooked it back up and still no spark. Okay new points and condenser....still no spark! Enough of this, take wire off toggle switch and touch it to battery directly. Wasn't expecting blue white spark, but will learn to live with it. Wire back on toggle switch, no spark. New voltage regulator and key switch and all is well with ignition system now. YAY!
So I spray some starter fluid down air inlet, nothing happens. Pull hose off after cleaner and spray some down there, got a piff or two, but no bark. Spritzed some gas down there too, same results, piff piff then nothing. Check plugs and they're wet with gas so it's getting to the cylinders. So yesterday in between rain showers I managed a compression check. First number is with all plugs in except the one with gauge on it, the second is with all plugs out, the results were: No.1 cyl. @ 35/40lbs. No.2 @ 55/55lbs. No.3 @ 62.5/65lbs. No.4 @ 32.5/30lbs. I was going to pour some oil down the cylinders and retest but the weather nixed that idea. I had already done this before trying the starting fluid but was going to add some more incase the cylinders got washed from what little gas we ran through it. So does any body know what the lbs. of compression is supposed to run on these things? Looks like I might be looking at lapping the valves or worse. Any input is as always appreciated. I'm being called away just now so I'll add more later when I know more.

Thanks,
JD
 
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Bruce(OR)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You better heavy oil the cylinders. Leave the plugs out and crank it over. Cover plug holes with rags. Install plugs and fire it up asap.
Once running, the rings might com back to life. Lots of smoke.
 
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old
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Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On most any tractor 90PSI is about as low as it can go and still run well. If it where me I would fil the cylinders with ATF and if it has a vertical exhaust pour as much ATF down the exhaust as you can with out it leaking. Ye have the plugs in when you do the latter. Let it sit a few days then pull the plugs and do another compression test. Another thing you can try is pull the air cleaner tube off and see if you get a good suction at the carb air intake. By the way wet plugs are fouled plug that cannot fire
 
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Steve@Advance
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A lot of factors can influence a compression check.

Cranking speed is one. Trying to check compression with the other plugs in will slow the cranking considerably, therefore lowering the reading.

Good chance the cylinders are washed down from cranking without spark.

Put some oil in the cylinders, let it sit if possible. Then spin the oil out, do the compression check again, this time with the throttle and choke open, and a fully charged battery.

It should have 90+ PSI compression. Look for differences. If they are not consistent something is wrong. Start with the valve train, look for stuck valves, non opening valves, broken springs, and check the valve lash.

I don't know if you've ever had this running, but if not, at least try again to get to start, even if the compression test is less than desirable. It may improve if it has stuck rings or rusty valve seats. Running will also let you check the oil pressure, and general condition of the engine. You can also put the rest of the tractor through it's motions to know what to look for, get a plan of attack so you're not back tracking to access unforeseen problems.
 
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2tractors
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yeah all that and if plugs are wet you could also have gas in sump. Just went through same situation first fileing points in tractor then took them out and refiled that worked.
 
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Jerry/MT
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Location: Western Montana

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With those low pressures, I"d look for stuck valves, mis-adjusted valves, or burned exhaust valves bent push rods, etc . 85 psig is about the min pressure for running that engine.
 
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Jimmydog
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: UPDATE: TO-30 coil Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Okay I was going to wait until tonight or tomorrow after I've tried a few more things to add to this post, but since we got our first frost of the season and I'm sitting here waiting for the sun to burn some of it off, I'll share what I've been up to so far.

So when I roll it over it seems to have better suction at the air hose. Before there seemed to be a spot where back pressure was evident, which would be a problem. This condition has gone away. Still no bark though and hardly a piff. As much gas and starter fluid that's been run through the thing it should have caught something on fire. I mean even without compression that stuff is flamable right? I took the valve cover off and can not see any thing too out of order. They all move up and down in the right order and while a couple had back lash out of spec none were terribly out, maybe a thousandth or two that's it. Most were at .013" like they're supposed to be, so for now I'm going to leave them alone. We even oiled the cylinders again and this time shot a couple squirts of gas in each one then installed plugs and still nothing. Thought the plugs would look oil fouled bad after that, but no, certainly not fouled so bad as not to fire. Even checked each plug out of the cylinder to see they all spark. Yeah I know under compression that might change, but it's not like i'm dealing with a lot of pressure. Should get a piff at least. So, the way I see it all things point to rings. I've resurrected enough old engines, many with ring problems, but this one is stubborn. Another thing is while we poured (sprayed) gas in the cylinders the crankcase oil doesn't have a gas smell. Last week when I sprayed starting fluid, you could detect the smell on the dip stick, not yesterday though. So maybe they're getting a little better but just not enough to matter.

Todays plan of attack: I'm going to clean the carb the best I can and put it back together and slap it on. I don't have a kit, but I do have gasket material, so as long as I don't bugger it up too bad I should be able to continue. You'll know if I screw up as I won't be posting for at least another week if I do. I have to take sediment bowl off the tank and clean that all up (currently doesn't flow). I'm going to flush the gas tank and if I think the carb is good to go, I plan on putting it back together and try pulling it around the farm in forth gear. Maybe with faster spin it might get enough compression to torch off. I'll also double check the timing too. I might not have gotten it right the first time, doesn't cost any thing to look. Something odd I should mention, when I rechecked the compression the #2 cylinder barely made 35lbs. last time I checked it, it had 55lbs. odd and maybe note worthy? So that's pretty much where things stand at the moment, thanks ever so much for all the help. I will let you all know what the haps is -when something happens.

Oh, and incase Old is listening; I didn't try the ATF thing because you didn't say which type, Dextron or Mercon? Heh heh. Actually I've always managed with just crankcase oil. My thinking is if the rings are as bad as they seem to be then I didn't want to contaminate the oil in the pan. I haven't ruled it out though.

Stay tuned for more adventures!

JD
 
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