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Case 448

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Howard H.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I picked up a nice old Case 448 hydrostatic lawn tractor about a year or so ago at an auction. It still has the original Onan engine.

I've used it quite a bit over the past year, but then parked it for a few months.

When I went to use it this past week, it fired up fine - but then didn't want to seem to go into reverse. It would go forward, so I rocked it back and forth a bit - and then finally reverse took hold and I moved it several feet and hopped off to load up some things in the trailer I had hooked to it.

It was sitting there idling smooth, but then very abruptly died. And now the motor seems locked down. I checked the oil, and the dipstick was heavily covered in splashed oil, though after I cleaned it, it WAS lower than I like, but still had oil on the lower end of the stick.


I can't get it to turn over now. I can't imagine the engine locked up - mainly because it died just like the key shut off, no noises or pulling down, etc - but I'm not sure what happened.

Is it possible the hydrostat has locked? Or is there anything else to check on that model tractor? Or should I just get the engine out to check it?




Thanks for any advice,
Howard
 
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WGM
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Case/Ingersoll never made a hydrostatic drive garden tractor. They were hydraulic drive. Big difference.
 
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Ken Combs
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Does it have a hydraulic Pto on the back? They often be bumped out of neutral and with no loop hose will lock it up. Otherwise, try turning the engine with the nut on the front, with the mower PTO engaged.
 
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jacks
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the hydraulic reservoir oil level gets too low, the oil will overheat, and the pump can lock up or stop the engine. If I remember right, the reservoir level sbould be 4 inches below the top. Use 15/40 diesel oil.
 
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jeffcat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You need to wait till tom arnold sends you a reply. Mine uses straight multi motor oil. Wait for him to get here.
 
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Howard H.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks, but no rear PTO and hydralulic oil is full.


I ran a scope down the plug holes and don't see anything wrong in either cylinder.

I tried moving it with the PTO clutch engaged, but couldn't move it, but I also can't get much leverage on turning it, yet. Need to get a set of wrenches from out at the farm to really mess with it.


Thanks,
Howard
 
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Ken Combs
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I mentioned rear PTO, just want to make sure we're looking for hyd connection, not shaft.
 
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Howard H.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote


OK - thanks. I understand. I'll check this evening for that part, too.

Here is a pic of the tractor - if it matters at all.

 
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Tom Arnold
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Some MORON has removed the all-important cooling tins from the heads of your ONAN. This causes overheating which often leads to pistons seizing in the cylinder/s. It also causes the oil to over-heat which can lead to other lubrication issues. Based on the posts to date, it is my opinion that this Onan is TOAST and will have to be removed from the tractor, torn down and subjected to a full rebuild. With no rear PTO control valve, there is no real reason to believe that this is a hydraulic problem.
 
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gab
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your original Onan doesn't have the original or any other cooling shrouds, it's pistons are probably melted.







 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm not here to "diss" these "tractors", but, sadly, while those old deathtraps are CUTE, and SWELL if you are a CASE collector, there's lots of better choices out there if you desire a working lawn and garden tractor.

Wonder WHY they chose to use that goofy "hydraulic drive" vs. the much better/safer hydrostatic drive that everyone else was using in the same era???

A friend of mine wound up in a lake along with with one of those when it "ran away" on a downslope.

NOT sure WHY he bothered to retrieve it, but he dried it out and got it running and found it a new home, he'd had enough!

Also, the unusual special crankshaft configuration makes repowering with a more modern/affordable engine a challenge.

Some years ago I had a 466 that threw a rod and a fellow from a nearby town heard I had it and thought it was the answer to his dreams, but he passed away 10 or 15 years later and the tractor, mower, tiller,and snowblower sold for $70, as he'd never got an engine conversion done.
 
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Tom Arnold
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

For someone who is not here to "diss" these tractors, you managed to do a pretty good hatchet job. To begin with, your initial story about the NEW owner who allowed his tractor to end up in the lake, this is a clear example of someone who thinks they are a Master of all Machinery because he obviously FAILED to read the Operator's Manual BEFORE using the machine. When people are that arrogant, they often end up in the hospital or the morgue. The "runaway" issue on steep grades was well-known but it was perfectly manageable if you followed the advice in the Operator's Manual. I have no pity for truly stupid people who blame the tool instead of themselves for whatever tragedy befalls them.

The "goofy" Hy-Drive system was initially introduced by COLT in 1963. J.I. CASE was so impressed with it, they bought COLT in late 1964 just so they could get their hands on this PATENTED drive system. The system remained in use until some time in 2010 or so, when Ingersoll (the final owner of the tractor line) stopped production for a number of reasons, none of which had to do with the hydraulic drive. These tractors sold very well over their 50 years of production and MOST owners ended up returning to the dealer to purchase a newer model again and again. Colt, Case and Ingersoll still to this day......enjoy a strong following to this day from owners who use them as they were intended to be used.

Years ago, you claim to have owned a "466". That is interesting since there has never been a CCI tractor with that model number. Presumably, you had a 446 which began production in 1972 and ceased production in 1989 when Ingersoll changed the model number system. Re-powering any one of these tractors is not difficult because it is done all the time and has been done for many years. Places such as Small Engine Warehouse offer re-power kits . I know of people who have removed engines from other brands of tractors and then re-powered their CCI tractor with them.

The claim that your old tractor package sold for a mere $70.00 means nothing other than the fact that the Buyer went home giggling and laughing about the smokin" deal he got. A used snow-caster is worth at least $250.00 today, the hydraulic rotary tiller will bring that much or more on any given day it it is marketed properly. Even a tractor with a blown engine is worth at least $100.00 but that one had an optional Rear PTO kit that sells on E-Bay for $150.00 and up......all by itself. The aforementioned prices are all on the conservative side and subject to demand.

YOU do not know why the new owner of your tractor never re-powered it. YOU are simply speculating and speculation is a long way off of FACTS.


The Hy Drive System allowed CASE to offer a tractor that could power numerous attachments without the need of a drive belt or a drive shaft. No other tractor could do this. Whether you needed a rotary tiller, a log splitter, a 3-point finishing mower, a Bush Hog field mower, a VAC system to clean up the lawn or a chipper/shredder, a CCI was able to power these attachments without the need for a 2nd engine. At one point, there was also a hydraulically powered mower deck and snow caster that worked with All-Hydraulic Series of tractors.


May I respectfully suggest that you join the forum I started back in 2010, known as casecotlingersoll.com and take the time to truly learn about these tractors so you can enlighten your mind.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-tom arnold wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:54:27 10/23/1Cool For someone who is not here to "diss" these tractors, you managed to do a pretty good hatchet job. To begin with, your initial story about the NEW owner who allowed his tractor to end up in the lake, this is a clear example of someone who thinks they are a Master of all Machinery because he obviously FAILED to read the Operator's Manual BEFORE using the machine. When people are that arrogant, they often end up in the hospital or the morgue. The "runaway" issue on steep grades was well-known but it was perfectly manageable if you followed the advice in the Operator's Manual. I have no pity for truly stupid people who blame the tool instead of themselves for whatever tragedy befalls them.

The "goofy" Hy-Drive system was initially introduced by COLT in 1963. J.I. CASE was so impressed with it, they bought COLT in late 1964 just so they could get their hands on this PATENTED drive system. The system remained in use until some time in 2010 or so, when Ingersoll (the final owner of the tractor line) stopped production for a number of reasons, none of which had to do with the hydraulic drive. These tractors sold very well over their 50 years of production and MOST owners ended up returning to the dealer to purchase a newer model again and again. Colt, Case and Ingersoll still to this day......enjoy a strong following to this day from owners who use them as they were intended to be used.

Years ago, you claim to have owned a "466". That is interesting since there has never been a CCI tractor with that model number. Presumably, you had a 446 which began production in 1972 and ceased production in 1989 when Ingersoll changed the model number system. Re-powering any one of these tractors is not difficult because it is done all the time and has been done for many years. Places such as Small Engine Warehouse offer re-power kits . I know of people who have removed engines from other brands of tractors and then re-powered their CCI tractor with them.

The claim that your old tractor package sold for a mere $70.00 means nothing other than the fact that the Buyer went home giggling and laughing about the smokin" deal he got. A used snow-caster is worth at least $250.00 today, the hydraulic rotary tiller will bring that much or more on any given day it it is marketed properly. Even a tractor with a blown engine is worth at least $100.00 but that one had an optional Rear PTO kit that sells on E-Bay for $150.00 and up......all by itself. The aforementioned prices are all on the conservative side and subject to demand.

YOU do not know why the new owner of your tractor never re-powered it. YOU are simply speculating and speculation is a long way off of FACTS.


The Hy Drive System allowed CASE to offer a tractor that could power numerous attachments without the need of a drive belt or a drive shaft. No other tractor could do this. Whether you needed a rotary tiller, a log splitter, a 3-point finishing mower, a Bush Hog field mower, a VAC system to clean up the lawn or a chipper/shredder, a CCI was able to power these attachments without the need for a 2nd engine. At one point, there was also a hydraulically powered mower deck and snow caster that worked with All-Hydraulic Series of tractors.


May I respectfully suggest that you join the forum I started back in 2010, known as casecotlingersoll.com and take the time to truly learn about these tractors so you can enlighten your mind.


Yes, typo/probably crs, it was a 446.

Since I know longer own one, I'll pass on the Forum, but I shall recommend it to my friend who got dumped in the lake, so he can "learn" what he did wrong!

Kinda doubt his opinion can be changed either, though, 'cause the he had several DEERE units after that fiasco, and (with no special tricks or training) mowed his steep-sloped lake lot for many years with no further wetness problems!
 
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Tom Arnold
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As once said........You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. Since you choose to NOT join that forum and educate yourself, then kindly stop spreading negative information
about the CCI line of tractors. Misinformation does no one any good.
 
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Lance Skene
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Case 448 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ya I would agree the engine is likely toast due to running without the tins. Someone f'd up there, maybe took them off to clean out a mouse nest or debris.

Nice tractors tho so its worth rebuilding the engine... and the hy-drive is a pretty nice system imo.

I just had a 448 in here for repair, owner said the starter would just click.... ya I guess so when both pistons are stuck, he left it parked outside for a few years. I got it freed up and it will start but I suggested he get the Onan rebuilt.

 
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