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3010 with 24 volt system

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Harry in Ky
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Okay, this tractor has just recently changed hands, and of course came with no repair history, recent or otherwise.

It appears to be "mostly" original with 24v starter and two output generator. The starter works fine, but not so the charging system.
I've been websearching for information, diagrams, troubleshooting hints, etc with mixed results. I have a basic idea how the overall system is expected to work, like 12v + ground, 12v - ground, isolated ungrounded charging circuits, split loads and all that.

What I don't know is how to trouble shoot the charging portion. I admit I didn't spend a great deal of time at it today, knowing I needed not only more information, but also a day with better working conditions.

I now have some diagrams to work with and thought the first step might be to remove some panels to access and trace some wires hoping to determine how much of what's there matches the diagram and go from there. I do know the charge light(and possibly more) doesn't work with the key on so that needs to be addressed. Beyond that I'm not sure where to go next in the way of testing the generator, regulator, or anything else.
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do yourself a huge favor and save some cash too by converting to a 12 volt system with a Delco internal regulated 3 wire alternator.

My father in law's 4010 was needing 2 new batteries so I changed it to 12 volts. Only used in summer time so am getting by quite well with one Group 31 1000 CCA battery. Not needing second battery went a long ways toward cost of the 12V starter.

I flipped the existing generator bracket and with a little attention from an angle grinder it works real well.

Starts as well as 24 Volt, and will be much simpler and less costly to maintain. I got a 12 volt starter on line, used a Delco alternator that I had, and got a salvage auxiliary starter solenoid out of an old Ford pickup. Did it for about half the price of an advertised kit.

You already have a charge light that will excite the 3 wire alternator so you may as well have the advantage of the 3 wire.
 
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Harry in Ky
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote="CVPost-rvirgil_KS"](reply to post at 00:36:51 11/17/1Cool [/While I appreciate the response I guess I should have made clear in my original post that this isn't my tractor, and so neither is the expense. I realize that converting the starter and charging system to something else may well be the long term "best solution", but I'm not quite ready to put that option at the top of the list until I can determine why the existing system isn't working.]
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Despite all the "bad press", we've often heard, those 24 Volt generators work just like their 12 Volt cousins.

The A1 terminal near the "F" terminal is the (-) side of the 24 Volt system, and the A2 terminal all by itself partway around the generator away is the (+) terminal.

It's similar at the starter, the battery cable terminal on the starter solenoid is the (-) side of the starting system, and the terminal stud at an odd location in the starter "belly" facing the engine block is where the (+) side the series-connected pair of 12 Volt batteries connects.

If you have the correct wring diagram and a basic knowledge of electricity it should be no big deal to figure out what's going on.
 
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Harry in Ky
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The I&T manual I have has good system description and the wiring diagrams, but really nothing in the way of test procedures.
I guess what I'm asking for is something more specific in the way of "how to" make preliminary system checks to determine if the generator or regulator is at fault. For instance, with the two circuit generator, grounding the field as with a 12v unit is apparently not the way to go. If not then what is? Most of my other manuals give basic procedures for checking the various charging system components such as "ground this terminal", "jumper terminal X to terminal Y", "apply 12v to terminal Z", that sort of thing. With this system I haven't been able to find any of that so far.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

For a detailed step by step procedure to explain the operation as well as charging system troubleshooting (although older then your tractor yet much still applies) go to the late Duane Larson's web site http://www.jd2cylservice.com/ and download John Deere Service Bulletin 268. It's easy to first Polarize (if needed) and then full field the genny to see if non charging is the cause of the Generator itself or the Voltage Regulator or some other problem...?. Bob and Tx Jim and Buickndeere are great sources also.

John T
Duane Larsons Website

 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Harry in Ky wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:33:17 11/17/1Cool The I&T manual I have has good system description and the wiring diagrams, but really nothing in the way of test procedures.
I guess what I'm asking for is something more specific in the way of "how to" make preliminary system checks to determine if the generator or regulator is at fault. For instance, with the two circuit generator, grounding the field as with a 12v unit is apparently not the way to go. If not then what is? Most of my other manuals give basic procedures for checking the various charging system components such as "ground this terminal", "jumper terminal X to terminal Y", "apply 12v to terminal Z", that sort of thing. With this system I haven't been able to find any of that so far.


JohnT's post and the DEERE 268 bulletin for the older 24 Volt diesels should pretty much cover what you need.

To polarize, momentarily jumper "A1" and "F".

To "full field", jumper "A2" and "F".
 
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Harry in Ky
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks, that sounds like what I'm looking for. I went to the website and tried to make contact but was unable to get a connection. Guess I need to find another source for the bulletin. Will try again later.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One final addition to Bob's and my post, when you do as he suggested and:

Polarize "To polarize, momentarily jumper "A1" and "F"." Do that before start up and when not running

And then if you full field "To "full field", jumper "A2" and "F""

When full fielded at fast RPM if she still don't charge the genny itself may be bad (among other causes) since then the
Voltage Regulator function is out of the equation. Often the cause is worn or bad brushes or bad field windings etc etc

John T
 
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Harry in Ky
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I still need to confirm the wiring and address the charge light issue. So if the wiring checks out and I get the light to come on but it still won't charge, then the full field test should confirm generator working or not, right? If the generator works, then would it be safe to assume the regulator may be the problem?
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote


These could be a candidate for any waterloo diesel?
Offset gear reduction and 5Kw.Denso Starter 428000-4430 2593563C91 M11 DD60 FLD112 TG428000-4430.

or

RE534934 RE534961
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You ask "If the generator works, then would it be safe to assume the regulator may be the problem? "

The most important part of that question is the word MAY Yes if the genny itself is okay there remains a chance the VR MAYYYYYYYYY be the problem. However, of course there are wiring and other issues that remain as the problem NOT the VR.

John T
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

buickanddeere wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:10:19 11/17/1Cool
These could be a candidate for any waterloo diesel?
Offset gear reduction and 5Kw.Denso Starter 428000-4430 2593563C91 M11 DD60 FLD112 TG428000-4430.

or

RE534934 RE534961


Clarification, those numbers maybe for the direct drive starters .
 
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Harry in Ky
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As I stated earlier, confirming the wiring to be correct and serviceable with the charge light functioning would seem to be the first order of business. Once past that, I believe with the information posted here I should be able to figure out what works and what doesn't.
Thanks to all who responded.
.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 3010 with 24 volt system Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:27:35 11/17/1Cool
Harry in Ky wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:33:17 11/17/1Cool The I&T manual I have has good system description and the wiring diagrams, but really nothing in the way of test procedures.
I guess what I'm asking for is something more specific in the way of "how to" make preliminary system checks to determine if the generator or regulator is at fault. For instance, with the two circuit generator, grounding the field as with a 12v unit is apparently not the way to go. If not then what is? Most of my other manuals give basic procedures for checking the various charging system components such as "ground this terminal", "jumper terminal X to terminal Y", "apply 12v to terminal Z", that sort of thing. With this system I haven't been able to find any of that so far.


CORRECTION/ERROR/WRONG information! DO NOT follow!

The POLARIZING info I posted above was totally WRONG, don't know how I managed to type/post that, as I know better!

Correct way to polarize these DEERE 24 Volts systems is to momentarily jumper "A1" (labeled "GEN") at the voltage regulator and the regulator terminal labeled "BATT".

DANG, we need an edit function here!
JohnT's post and the DEERE 268 bulletin for the older 24 Volt diesels should pretty much cover what you need.

To polarize, momentarily jumper "A1" and "F".

To "full field", jumper "A2" and "F".

 
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