Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

Combine break away battery and winch battery

Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jacks
Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 349


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have an 18+3 Hudson deck over trailer rated 10000 # payload. It has two axles with brakes on both axles. It uses a small motorcycle battery for the break away system. I have added a 9k winch and a deep cycle RV battery to power the winch. The trailer gets used intermittently and the motorcycle batteries do not last long. I would like to eliminate the motorcycle battery and power both the winch and breakaway from the RV battery. Right now I charge the RV battery with a charger, it is not wired to the trailer wiring. My initial thought is to wire an alternator diode and a 30 amp circuit breaker in the line between the RV positive terminal and the trailer 12v hot wire. That would prevent the RV battery from ever feeding power back to the truck electrical system. Have any of you guys done this setup and do you have any advice or see anything wrong with my proposed setup?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
VicS
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 4571


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I did the 30 amp breaker thing with a trailer with a electric hoist. But no diode. Workes well, quit blowing fuse in truck,when i raised the hoist. But still charge batt on trailer at night. Seems hust keeps batt on trailer about 75 to 80 percent charged.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Indiana Ken
Long Time User


Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 1292
Location: Northern Indiana

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote


If you still plan to charge your winch battery with a separate charger why would you need the circuit breaker and diode?

I have a trailer that is used very little however, when it is used I will always have a fully charged battery on board for the winch. I plan to delete the small brake away battery and the 12 volt power connection from the truck to the break away battery. The positive terminal of the winch battery will then be connected to the wire originally connected to the positive break away battery terminal. The negative terminal of the winch battery will be connected to the wire the originally connected to the negative terminal of the break away battery (grounded).

Since the break away switch is always open unless the trailer becomes disconnected from the truck the winch battery is isolated from the truck's charging system.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
jacks
Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 349


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I want to hook up
the winch battery so it charges from the
truck electrical system
 
Back to top
View user's profile
moresmoke
Tractor Expert


Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1562


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The house battery on an RV trailer is connected directly to the vehicle supply circuit. The breakaway controller is connected to that battery.

The circuit breaker is a good idea on your winch battery due to the size of the load when using the winch. Same for a dump trailer power pack. The diode isn?t really needed, the vehicle supply circuit is fused and controlled through a relay.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
RCP
Long Time User


Joined: 24 Feb 2000
Posts: 1283
Location: Western Pa

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I did something similar on our gooseneck;

1) Big 12 volt battery
2) Battery connected to brake away, 12K wench and provides power for electric over hydraulic brakes.
3) Has a 12 volt solar panel with added charge controller to prevent ever charging of battery.
4) Battery is connected to hot wire from truck with a 20 circuit breaker to protect the truck.

What is the risk of not having the diode?

Thanks
Rich
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JoeM(GA)
Tractor Expert


Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 1623


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

that's how my breakaway is done, I have two group 31 big truck batteries powering my winch and my hydraulic pump for the ramps,
just didn't see the need for that dinky little battery to be on there too. Do be prepared to get questioned when stopped by enforcement and asked about it. I guess when they pass me it's quite obvious there isn't a little battery box mounted up on the neck, so I have had them pull me over and ask me to show them. Never had a problem after they looked. I charge my batteries off an Anderson plug mounted to the tool box and running down the neck to the front where the batteries are. This allows me to unplug the truck from the trailer when winching to protect the truck system in case I overload the winch, or there is a problem. I'm also building an extra set of jumper cables with this plug on one end so I don't have to open the hood to jump something of or power it.
anderson plug

 
Back to top
View user's profile
jacks
Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 349


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think that I remember a problem described on this forum caused by current flowing from the trailer battery back to the truck electrical system, but can't remember the exact problem. My power wire feeding the trailer electrical is connected to one of the positive posts on the truck batteries. There is a 30 amp breaker there at the battery. One thing a diode would do is to stop any parasitic drain of the trailer battery when the trailer is hooked up and the truck is not running. Because of voltage drop in the long wire from the truck batteries to the trailer battery, the trailer battery will not charge as quickly as the truck batteries. I figure the diode will stop any current flow at any time from the trailer battery back to the truck, which would help the trailer battery stay charged better.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Indiana Ken
Long Time User


Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 1292
Location: Northern Indiana

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-jacks wrote:
(quoted from post at 05:18:55 12/03/1Cool I think that I remember a problem described on this forum caused by current flowing from the trailer battery back to the truck electrical system, but can't remember the exact problem. My power wire feeding the trailer electrical is connected to one of the positive posts on the truck batteries. There is a 30 amp breaker there at the battery. One thing a diode would do is to stop any parasitic drain of the trailer battery when the trailer is hooked up and the truck is not running. Because of voltage drop in the long wire from the truck batteries to the trailer battery, the trailer battery will not charge as quickly as the truck batteries. I figure the diode will stop any current flow at any time from the trailer battery back to the truck, which would help the trailer battery stay charged better.


I think you have a good set up with the separate power wire from the truck battery and the 30 amp breaker. Yes, there is a voltage drop in the charge wire and in addition, a voltage drop of 0.7 to 1.5 volts across a diode. The truck alternator senses at and controls off of the truck battery voltage. Therefore, compared to the truck battery, the winch battery can only see a charging voltage less the above mentioned voltage losses. Using a isolation relay to disconnect the winch battery from the truck would prevent any current flow back to the truck and allow for a better charge voltage to the winch battery. For me the problem with the diode is the voltage drop....if you are charging from the truck. In the event the winch battery is maintained at a "less than fully charged level" it's life can be will shorten.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
jacks
Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 349


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the information about the voltage drop on the diodes. I
am thinking about mounting a solar battery charger on the trailer.
It would keep the battery charged even when the trailer is not used
for a while. The trailer mounted battery would only power the winch
and provide breakaway power if ever needed.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
RCP
Long Time User


Joined: 24 Feb 2000
Posts: 1283
Location: Western Pa

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you decide to use a solar panel, I would check into a charge controller, as explained to me, without the charge controller the solar panel can cook the battery.

Rich
 
Back to top
View user's profile
BarnyardEngineering
Tractor Guru


Joined: 23 Mar 2016
Posts: 4195


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

RV travel trailers use the "house" battery for the breakaway, so it's not unheard of. In fact it is quite common.

Don't worry about the diode. RV travel trailers don't have diodes. The battery can't hurt the truck.

A couple of hard truths about what you're planning, though:
1. A single deep cycle battery isn't going to run the winch as well, or as long as, you think.
2. Charging from the truck takes several hours of driving to accomplish.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Determined
Tractor Expert


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: N.W.Saskatchean

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a trailer with a hydraulic pack and battery on it.

I have the breakaway running off the big battery, checked with officer at the scales before I did this and was told it would be fine, actually better because a much better chance the battery will actually be charged up.

I used a Cole Hearse continuous duty solenoid on the truck to isolate the trailer.
Whenever the truck is running power from the ignition closes the solenoid.
Shut the truck off solenoid opens and no chance of draining the truck battery.

Yes one can use an isolator or diodes, I have before and although problems were few hearing the solenoid go click is piece of mind to me that everything is working.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
D beatty
Tractor Guru


Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 7857


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have used a solar panel to charge battery for winch battery for four years and have yet fried a battery.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
RCP
Long Time User


Joined: 24 Feb 2000
Posts: 1283
Location: Western Pa

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Combine break away battery and winch battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It probably depends on the output of the solar panel, a couple of amps might be Ok.

Rich
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Tractor Transporting All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). Expedited shipping available, just call! Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors. Compare our super low shipping rates! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor. We are a company you can trust and have generous return policies. Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters