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Help identifying Industrial Engine


 
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Jimps
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Location: Hinesville/Hortense GA

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:28 pm    Post subject: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a 1952 8N that had an engine swap about 10 years ago with an engine that I was told came off of an irrigation pump. I would like to know the approximate year of the engine and the CID. It has a front mount distributor and has been converted to 12 volts negative ground with a hogged-out coil to use a standard 3 ohm round can coil and an alternator on the right side. The tractor runs great and seems to have more power than my other 1952 8N. I tried to look for a serial number on the block. There is a boss on the left side like my other 8N but I cannot see any numbers there. I removed the battery box to look for some casting numbers to no avail. I did find a small circular stamp about 1 inch in diameter behind the starter and it appears to read "1K4" across the top and "60" on the bottom. It is upside down and behind the starter so it is hard to see. Also I noticed that there are only 3 welch plugs on the left side, and the oil filler neck is positioned closer to the front of the block than my other 8N. Any ideas? Below are some pics:







Thanks,

Jimps in GA.
 
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R Geiger
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Location: Banks, Oregon

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


My industralial had a data plate on top of the bellhousing just aft of the block. Mine was a late 8n block with a magneto on it.
No oil filter?
 
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Jimps
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


It did not come with an oil filter, but I have one to install when I do a split to replace the clutch in the next few weeks. No plate on the bell housing.

Thanks,

Jimps in GA.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


1)It is a ft mt block
2) what it that piece of channel iron behind/near the front crankshaft pulley
3) it should be the same CI as any N engine a 48N and up has a little different head that's worth a pony are two. Its possible its been rebuilt the block/head decked and different pistons...

4) I have ran into 4 are so industrial engines only one had a tag on it two no serial # and one had a serial #.

5) Out of the four three did not come with cylinder liners are harden valve seats. Those three were original bored to OEM cylinder specs no liner used stock pistons installed. If you were to rebuild them and it needed boring you would bore it to use a stock N liner. If the valve seats were worn you have a machine shop install harden valve seats. I learned this on my first Industrial and liked to ruin the block trying to get harden valve seats out that were not there...
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd say the model year is not important. You already know it is front mount unit, an 8N, so that limits it to mid-1947 to early-1950. The FORD 8 NNN, 120 CID, Industrial Engine was used in several applications - stationary units for one. There was indeed an oil filer on these so why the PO removed it s question you'd have to ask him. I'm unsure what your first picture is showing but date code tags were attached on the starter pocket -part of the block, on early 8Ns. They would have a letter for month, i.e A for January, then a one or two digit numeral up to 31 for day of month, then a single digit for year. This was simply the DATE the block was cast and nothing more. For example, my early 8N has the casting date code boss tag as: "I167" which is defined as September 16, 1947. I also have an original copy of the 8NN Industrial Engine Operator's Manual as well. There is a version of it too on the NTC site for free download in the MANUALS forum. There wouldn't be any numbers under the battery box by the way. You can look on the bottom of the hydraulic pump base. There should be a casting date tag on it as well -axle trumpets too.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
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Jimps
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Hobo,

The channel iron you are seeing is part of the front cover. There is a similar piece on the other side as well that was also cut off. It does not appear to be a standard front cover, and it is one cast. The story I got from the man who sold me the engine said that it was part of a water/irrigation pump for a farm. He told me that the farmer had the engine rebuilt and ran it for about a year until the pump broke, then he decided to retire the engine. Supposedly the engine was cut off of the original pump unit and that must be what those cut-off ears were from. I can see the cut marks on both sides. When I first saw the engine it was in the back of a truck with a non-compatible oil pan. The guy was able to swap the block onto my existing tractor, and now I have a front-mount distributor on a 52 8N.

Thanks,

Jimps in GA.
 
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Jimps
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Tim,

I was told that the engine never had an oil filter. That does seem odd. I haven't used this tractor very much since I got the "new" engine because the clutch needs replacing and I have another 8N that I use primarily. I already have an oil filter unit to add when I do the clutch replacement.

So since this engine was never on a tractor before, it could pre-date the 1947 8N production. What was the date range for production of the front-mount engines? Maybe the odd front cover and original engine application would help with identification? It is no big deal, it runs, but I am just curious about the date.

Thanks,

Jimps in GA.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


How about a few pix of the other side of the engine.
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, it did have an oil filter canister mounted. Many fallacies/myths abound on these N's based purely on speculation, guesswork, opinions, and what grandpa said instead of actual facts. Just because someone told you it never had an oil filter doesn't mean he was right. Maybe it didn't have one when HE bought it so, by gosh, it never had one to begin with. See hoe myths start? See that non-original 12V coil added to the LH front of block? It's using one of the two bolt holes for the canister. Now look a bit further towards the seat along the top of block below the head. See the other bolt hole? The oil filter housing/canister mounts there. Industrial engines were made for various applications. By your pictures, It tend to believe it is the 8NNN model. I will try to find my OEM 120 CID/8NNN Industrial Engine Manual for you...if that'll help.

Tim *PloughNman Daley*(MI)
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is an OEM manual in the ads forum here -click on LINK
MANUAL

 
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Jimps
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks Tim. I got the manual downloaded from the other site.

Jimps in GA.
 
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Jimps
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Help identifying Industrial Engine Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Hobo, more pics.


Right side views:







Closer shots of the left side:






Jimps in GA.
 
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