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Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff cas

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refer123
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-JK2 wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:47:58 01/17/19) It looks like there are 2 problems with your plumbing reroute to add the extra oil. The first is that the front plug should not have been just a plug but a plug with a long screw, a copper washer and a lock nut on it (you can see it on page 71C). This screw holds item 28 on page 71C into the hydraulic housing. The oil from the hydraulic pump goes through this line from the pump to the control valves.

Go here to get to AGCO parts catalog: *http://agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/book.aspx?book=agco/r1157c00* Highlight the line between the *'s & click open in another tab.

The other thing I see (I think) is that the small line that connects to the top rear of the hydraulic reservoir appears to be connected to the rear one of you fittings to your tank. If this is true, oil under pump pressure is being force into that fitting. That fitting/line is supposed to be the breather for the hydraulic system and is to be connected to the fitting at the other end of the PTO handle bore in the rear end housing. The rear end housing then allows both system to breathe through the J shaped tube near the front left of the plate between the rear end and the hydraulic housings which has a "bottle brush" in it to keep out bigger things.
AGCO catalog


Thanks for the reply
I have to get permission, from an ARCO Dealer, to get into the AGCO catalog, so I will try tomorrow. But I do have 3 manuals for this jet star, Operator Manual #S-258,Repair Catalog # R-2013A(Basically a Parts
manual), and Shop Manual #MM-14.
In the parts book and the shop manual I see a picture of what you are talking about. I did not remove them, and nowhere in any of the manuals does it explain what that does.
The parts Manual gives the specs on the pieces

ITEM #
31-GM138684 , set screw 5/16"-18 x 3-1/2" long
30-10A9442 Nut- pressure tube set screw
32-50A1041-Nut, stop 5/16"-18
33-10A6386 Gasket- set screw nut (lead). 5/16" ID. 17/32" OD
34-10A3397 Gasket- set screw nut, 11/32"ID. 5/8" OD
Would it be possible to locate them?

The 3/16" line , I believe you are referring to, actually is the vent line from the HYD sys to the Differential. This line is the way the book shows it to be.I do have the breather tube you are referring too, but the brush has been missing. I changed it to a 90 degree, so so it would be harder for anything to enter it.
any suggestions would sure help.


Just an FYI, I was getting fluid in the diff. before I add the reserve tank. Thanks Again
 
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JK2
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You don't need to sign into the AGCO site. Just click the "VIEW BOOKS" & you can use it.
After looking again it looks as though those are valves next to the HYD housing & the vent line goes past them.
On one tractor, I used a pipe cross in the front hole with a longer screw so I could have a fill pipe like the later ones. That one did not have the rear port where the plug was on yours.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Welters 417-498-6496 or Everetts 740-922-3335 should be able to supply any parts you may want. You do need to put the screw back in to hold the tube in place or hyd pressure will push the tube out and cause loss of pressure.

The most likely place for the hyd oil to get into the rear end is through a defective pump seal. The other possibility is bad o-rings and gasket from the rear end casting to the hyd casting where pump pressure goes from the pump to the hyd system.
 
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MMDEL
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The parts you listed are the parts JK2 and myself are talking about. Am I hearing you right that these parts were not in the tractor when you got it only a pipe plug???? You said you had the system drained can you see if item 28 in your parts. book is in place or partly in place. (and condition of O ring). The long set screw holds this main delivery pipe firmly in position so there is no leakage. Fix this before you refill and test for leaks.
You only need the one line in the rear to your extra tank for added fluid capacity. Also I always fill 3PT housing 3/4-1/2/ below top inside of housing to have enough fluid to operate most any double acting cylinders.
MMDEL
 
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refer123
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-JK2 wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:34:16 01/17/19) Welters 417-498-6496 or Everetts 740-922-3335 should be able to supply any parts you may want. You do need to put the screw back in to hold the tube in place or hyd pressure will push the tube out and cause loss of pressure.

The most likely place for the hyd oil to get into the rear end is through a defective pump seal. The other possibility is bad o-rings and gasket from the rear end casting to the hyd casting where pump pressure goes from the pump to the hyd system.


To JK2 and MMDEL,
Thanks for all the help from all, I did get into the ARCO catalog, however I never was able to find the page you are talking about, page 71C item 28. But when I put all my part numbers in they did show up on page( 89B, R2013A00) White/Jetstar. type C hydraulic System. Also the picture blow-up was identical to my book.
Anyway I guess what's next is to remove that one line and valve an see what's there. hopefully I can locate these parts.
Thanks again to all
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-JK2 wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:24:49 01/17/19) You don't need to sign into the AGCO site. Just click the "VIEW BOOKS" & you can use it.
After looking again it looks as though those are valves next to the HYD housing & the vent line goes past them.
On one tractor, I used a pipe cross in the front hole with a longer screw so I could have a fill pipe like the later ones. That one did not have the rear port where the plug was on yours.


Well I removed the line going to that port in question, I see nothing in it. I will try to attach a picture. it is a mirror looking into that port, as you can see, I see nothing in it. It is 2 1/4" to the back, if that 5/16 rod is 31/2" long, I can't see how it would fit.I tried to move it, does not move. looks like it has a dimple in it. I can not see what that 5/16" rod would do?
If it helps any, here is the Tractor and Engine Serial #
Tractor MD.# Jet Star, SN 16500769, Engine MD.# 06L-4,
SN 16302614,

 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The reason you can't find the items by the number I stated is my fault because I was in the 445 book not the jetstar book. Sorry
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-JK2 wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:45:21 01/18/19) The reason you can't find the items by the number I stated is my fault because I was in the 445 book not the jetstar book. Sorry


So I am still wondering, is my tractor suppose to have those parts or not? I guess the next thing is to pull the HYD pump and inspect again?
Thanks again
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MMDEL wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:03:56 01/18/19) The parts you listed are the parts JK2 and myself are talking about. Am I hearing you right that these parts were not in the tractor when you got it only a pipe plug???? You said you had the system drained can you see if item 28 in your parts. book is in place or partly in place. (and condition of O ring). The long set screw holds this main delivery pipe firmly in position so there is no leakage. Fix this before you refill and test for leaks.
You only need the one line in the rear to your extra tank for added fluid capacity. Also I always fill 3PT housing 3/4-1/2/ below top inside of housing to have enough fluid to operate most any double acting cylinders.
MMDEL


MMDEL,
Item # 28 is not on the list of parts I put down, the items I listed were 30 thru 34 and I need to confess, the part # are correct, but a page must have turned while I was reading them. Those are actually for a "B" hyd sys. the item # for the "C" sys are actually 33 thru 37. but like I said all the part numbers are the same. So I don't see an item # 28. I am sending another picture with the pump off. I did find the "o" ring for the top hole "1 O'clock " some what distorted. however it looked like it was covering the entire opening. That is the only O ring, correct? Not being familiar with these Hydraulic sys, I have a stupid question to ask. When I put air pressure on the opening at the 3 O'clock position, which is the supply to the pump, from the reservoir. I got air in the reservoir, which would be normal. So when I put air on the 1 O'clock opening, the pressure port, I still had air coming in the reservoir. Would that be normal?

And again guys, I really appreciate all the help.
Thanks again
Jim



 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Not a problem JK2
If you read my last post I screwed up too and put down the item # for the "B" hydraulic sys. though all the part #s were correct, the items should have been, 34 thru 37, not 30 thru 34.

Again thanks, this has been a problem for me for years, just hope we can get to the bottom of it
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your tractor is supposed to have the parts to hold the line in the hole. It could be partly out of the hole now from operating a loader or 3 point without the tube being held in. The o-ring could also be damaged. I am not sure if you can see the block on the end of the line where it goes into the HYD housing to check the o-ring for damage or not. You know where it is from looking through the hole. See if you can see it by looking down and back through the hole where you add oil. I did have a 5 Star years ago, that was missing the parts yours is missing, that had blown the line out of the hole and was very low on pressure delivered to the remotes & 3 point. It had the same type system and pump on it.
 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-JK2 wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:05:27 01/19/19) Your tractor is supposed to have the parts to hold the line in the hole. It could be partly out of the hole now from operating a loader or 3 point without the tube being held in. The o-ring could also be damaged. I am not sure if you can see the block on the end of the line where it goes into the HYD housing to check the o-ring for damage or not. You know where it is from looking through the hole. See if you can see it by looking down and back through the hole where you add oil. I did have a 5 Star years ago, that was missing the parts yours is missing, that had blown the line out of the hole and was very low on pressure delivered to the remotes & 3 point. It had the same type system and pump on it.


JK2
Since I have to have it, I made it, see pic. This should work?
The only question is, how far do I turn it in? I did a temporary install, turned it in, so it does move. I hope that is a good thing?
it was at 2 1/4" in now it is 2 1/2" in from the outside edge. just need to know where to park it? Do I adjust it after I get it operating?

I tried looking into the opening but had no luck see anything.With a lite in the hole I can see it from that opening but that was all.

The other question I have is about the drive shaft sleeve gasket, brass ring, item 28 in the attached pic. It shows one on each end of the sleeve. the parts manual, under quantity list one. Would like to know if I need one on each end. as you can see in the previous pic I posted, there is one in the tractor, do I put another one in the pump, as the picture shoes. I do not have one there now.


After finding the bad o ring on the pump supply hole, I think I will get some new gaskets and o ring and put this back together. Now that I know where to check for leaks, I will test this. I just need to know how far to turn that adjusting rod I made.

Thanks again for all your help and the help of everybody.
refer123[/b]
 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have always just snugged them up against then locked with the lock nut.
As for the brass/copper ring I have just put back what was there or measured and calculated to hold the tapered roller bearings snugly in the hole without moving back & forth.
John
 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Wasn't near a computer most of last week. JK2 giving you good advice. when you looked in that hole with a mirror, you was looking at the back side of item 28 on Page 89 of Parts book R-2013A. If you are lucky and the O Ring isn't damaged and 28 isn't bent, just screw your new screw in against 28 until it bottoms out. No extra force, and lock in place.
The copper ring gaskets seal the sleeve for diff. fluid and any hyd fluid leaking from pump seal from leaking out between the gasket between pump and diff. case.
MMDEL
 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Minneapolis Moline Jet Star, Hyd fluid getting into Diff Reply to specific post Reply with quote

MMDEL wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:50:05 01/21/19) Wasn't near a computer most of last week. JK2 giving you good advice. when you looked in that hole with a mirror, you was looking at the back side of item 28 on Page 89 of Parts book R-2013A. If you are lucky and the O Ring isn't damaged and 28 isn't bent, just screw your new screw in against 28 until it bottoms out. No extra force, and lock in place.
The copper ring gaskets seal the sleeve for diff. fluid and any hyd fluid leaking from pump seal from leaking out between the gasket between pump and diff. case.
MMDEL


MMDEL,
page 89 is for "B" type hyd. system, but I think the part you are talking about is item 31 on page 89A, type "C" hyd sys.
I now think I understand what you are saying about it poping out the o ring. I did not realize that rod was pushing against tube and fitting. Like I mentioned before, when I first took a measure from the edge of hole to where it stops, it was 2 1/4" after I put that fitting I made into it and screwing it in, I did not bottom it out, but did take up a couple turns. I removed the rod and took another measurement, it was now 2 1/2". so I guess I would want to snug up that bolt to push that tube completely in tight, correct?
I just sent an e mail to Dale about getting some of the parts I need.

Hey I really appreciate all the help you guys hav been giving me.
Thanks again
Jim
 
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