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Pipeline explosion

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David G
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On the Enbridge comment about the lines going across the lakes, I think I know those lines, they run right below the southern edge of Superior. There are several lines, from different companies that cross that area. I had thought there may be some new lines going in.

I am a proponent of underground transportation, as it is magnitudes safer than transporting by rail. I think most of the environmental concerns are on the raw petroleum transportation from the oil sands to the refineries in Texas. That is really dirty stuff and makes a mess if there is a line break. Natural gas doesn't really make a mess once the initial explosion and fire are over.

It is amazing how safe the compressor stations are now compared to the past. They have continuous gas and fire monitoring with automatic shutdowns. I have seen many pictures of the compressor station explosions in the past and the list of names of people that have perished.
 
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Andy Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was a pipeline engineer for many years.

Usually when you have a fire like that it was somebody digging and hit the line to start the fire. Corrosion leak usually does not burn. Unfortunately that was near the house, and the way the house was destroyed makes you think there was a leak that found an ignition source in the house. So sorry to see the damage.

As David said pipelines are still the safest way to transport hydrocarbons. There have been a lot of rail accidents from the Bakken Shale formation, for instance. But one accident is too many. There is a lot of effort that goes into making pipelines as safe as possible. One part of that safety effort is the One Call system. Before excavating each and every time you are wise to call your state's One Call system. most places it is 811. They will take the legals and the pipeline and phone companies will come out and flag their lines. That way your are much less likely to hit a live line. We cut a fiber optic trunkline one time. The One Call we had done kept us from any liability.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Duh,

I was focused on failures and forgot about digging, thanks for clarifying.
 
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David G
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here is a link to one of the safety systems we work with.
Detronics

 
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johnlobb
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The last job I ever did on the pipelines was to run the installation of a heater and odorizing station on an 8" pipeline running off a 12" high pressure line near Hopkins, MI. The line was running about 8 miles to a factory (making mostly otc generic drugs) in Plainwell, MI. This was a Consumers Power co installation. This station was in the middle of a farmers field, and Consumers needed to get electricity in to the station, so one Saturday a cable plowing crew installed an underground electric cable. The following Monday, the gas distribution guys from Consumers came in and found out the cable plowing guys had missed the high pressure 12" gas line by 1"! These guys said if the plow would've hit the line, you would have seen the fire from Chicago! After that, I transferred into the building trades division of our local.
 
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Spook
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-David G wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:04:13 01/21/19) I would probably agree with that, as outside forces and other is 51%, that can be about anything, but would dispute outside forces are sabotage. A lot of the newer pipelines are still 50 years old with older ones approaching 70-80 years. Even a pipeline company with a less than stellar record still does a lot of work to keep these lines up. I think that particular line is one of the older ones, and was supposed to be replaced, do not know how far they are going on that.

I know of one line that goes up from Texas to Minneapolis was put in the 30s, it is mostly abandoned, and kept in place for farm taps. There are plans to replace it with a new line and convert the farm taps to propane. They derate the pressure on these lines as they get older and more vulnerable.


We had an old line that ran thru the edge of the village. Several homes had taps on the line, I heard free gas for passage thru their properties. They were told that the line would be abandoned, months in advance. Not one of them changed over to propane until their furnaces quit in the cold.
 
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MarkB_MI
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

> Most pipeline failures are the result of sabotage by environmentalists.

B&D, I'm sure you can find some examples of pipeline sabotage, but I challenge you to find an example of a spill or explosion that was caused by tree huggers. And the really big ones (such as the Enbridge break that dumped a million gallons of crude into the Kalamazoo River) seem to be caused by gross negligence on the part of operators.
 
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Bonnan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There was one as big or bigger than that here in Western Pa just a couple of months ago. New line on a very step hill. Land slide.line came apart. Burnt home and buildings. Months later it is still not repaired; can not stabilize the hillside.
 
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1130Leo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Pipeline maintenance in general is done to the standards that they are required to do so. Rules from 50 years ago are drastically different than todays standards. Those standards change every time an incident occurs. Blaming the operator is easy, however, most of the time, issues that arise are due to items that no one had considered in the past. Each State has different regulations and federal regulations. Do lines need to be inspected and monitored, absolutely. Anyone who thinks this country can survive without those pipelines is completely out of their minds. Energy is a commodity that we can not live without.
 
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caterpillar guy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't have a dog in the fight, or anything to do with pipelines. I do suspect that there is a law of averages fits here, as the more exposure from more lines, you would have more chances of failures and damages from all sorts of things.
There are a couple of pipe lines that pass behind dad's place been there for god knows how long. Been there since before I was a kid i'm 60 now. It is about 24 inch maybe bigger not sure. They used to have some lengths of pipe setting on a rack years ago those were about 24 inch.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/IN10603.pdf
 
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Dean
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Am assuming that this is the source that you refer to.

Good source.

Expect such acts to increase.

Dean
Threat Assessment

 
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Vicinalvictor
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TransCanada had a 22" natural gas pipeline explode 700' from my house in a wetland a few years ago. The line was put in back in 1949, corrosion and unstable ground caused it to rupture. Thankfully, because of the wetland, it did not spark and catch fire. Many people within a mile radius had to evacuate for several hours. It was incredible, the power and force of these underground transmission pipelines are not to be underestimated!
 
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Vicinalvictor
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

811 is the law before you dig. If you or your company does damage on their right-of-way, that company will take you to court.
 
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MarkB_MI
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Pipeline explosion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sorry, B&D, but that doesn't support your claim that "most pipeline failures are the result of sabotage by environmentalists". Nor does it offer any evidence of spills or explosions resulting from sabotage, just one shutdown with no spill.

Sabotage of infrastructure isn't all that uncommon, and the saboteurs may have any number of motivations. But in the larger scheme of things there are bigger risks. For example Enbridge Line 5 was nearly punctured last year by a tugboat that dragged its anchor through the Straits. And there was the aforementioned Kalamazoo River spill that took years to clean up and cost over a billion dollars. When the folks entrusted to maintain and operate pipelines encourage billion-dollar mishaps, should we really be all that concerned about a handful of misguided greenies?
 
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