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Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question

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yakob
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Joined: 04 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-David G wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:25:44 01/02/19) one part epoxy primer.


I just reread this thread and saw this comment...

What is "one part epoxy?" Doesn't it require 2 parts that you mix to be a true epoxy?
 
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DScott
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Location: White House, Tennessee

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am far from being an expert but I struggled with the same issues the original poster mentioned when I started in this hobby as I had never painted anything. This is how I have prepped and painted my tractors since 2000:
Use paint stripper and a hot water pressure washer to strip the tractor down to bare metal. I do use electrolysis on some parts (fuel tanks, etc). As soon as they are clean, I spray them down with phosphoric acid and wipe off any excess after a few minutes. Parts will be almost black in some areas and white in others. These can set for months without any surface rust coming back when kept inside my shop.
When ready to prime, I wipe down with a good prep cleaner (Prep-sol, etc.). I then shoot the epoxy primer, I usually use PPG Omni epoxy primer. Wait the required time and then top coat.
This has always worked for me, some of these tractors I restored 19 years ago still look fresh with no rust bubbles or creeping out around the nuts and bolts as I see on some older restorations. I have heard people caution about priming/painting over phosphoric treated metals but I have never had an issue.

Below is a pic of my 34 A (painted in 2008) after being treated with phosphoric acid and ready for primer.



Same tractor after being primed.



After paint (John Deere Classic green).




Finished tractor, pic taken last summer.


 
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ASEguy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You do good work. I use Picklex-20 instead of phosphoric acid. You never regret doing it right.
 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-ASEguy wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:22:21 02/10/19) You do good work. I use Picklex-20 instead of phosphoric acid. You never regret doing it right.


This is what I’m dealing with and why I choose to prime as I go on cleaning. I cleaned the tractor a couple months ago and re-cleaned the axle last weekend and went ahead and primed it with rattle can primer. That is all I could finish the one day I had time to work.

See all of the surface rust on the cleaned areas that has accumulated? I feel like it will be near impossible to clean back off for a good paintable surface. All I have to use is a twisted wire wheel on a grinder and regular sand paper.

What do you all suggest to clean back to bare metal so I can lay down some good epoxy primer ? I don’t want to do any more sanding/cleaning on the tractor until I know I can get it primed within a week.
 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

[quote="RTR"](quoted from post at 00:27:25 02/11/19) [quote="CVPost-ASEguy"](quoted from post at 19:22:21 02/10/19) You do good work. I use Picklex-20 instead of phosphoric acid. You never regret doing it right.[/quote]

This is what I’m dealing with and why I choose to prime as I go on cleaning. I cleaned the tractor a couple months ago and re-cleaned the axle last weekend and went ahead and primed it with rattle can primer. That is all I could finish the one day I had time to work.

See all of the surface rust on the cleaned areas that has accumulated? I feel like it will be near impossible to clean back off for a good paintable surface. All I have to use is a twisted wire wheel on a grinder and regular sand paper.

What do you all suggest to clean back to bare metal so I can lay down some good epoxy primer ? I don’t want to do any more sanding/cleaning on the tractor until I know I can get it primed within a week.[/quote]

Pictures of the above.....

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31169.jpg[/img]

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31170.jpg[/img]

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31171.jpg[/img]

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31172.jpg[/img]

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31173.jpg[/img]

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31174.jpg[/img]

[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto31175.jpg[/img]
 
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RTR
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Pictures- 2nd try.











 
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yakob
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Cleaning to Bare Metal & Priming Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

RTR wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:38:07 02/10/19)
Pictures- 2nd try.












You don't really have that big of a mess on your hands, so I hope you aren't stressing out too much about it.

The wire wheel is going to get it back off the fastest. Some guys don't like to use them because they "polish" the surface...we haven't really had a problem but you could get a box of scuff pads or 320 sand paper and abrade the metal after cleaning with a wire wheel if it concerns you (it definitely won't be a step backwards). If you can't primer all at once and paint in your situation, I would suggest priming as you go as mentioned before. When it comes time to paint, scuff the cured primer yet again with some scuff pads, do a final seal coat of primer, then spray your paint on within recoat windows.

I always recommend against cheap primers, and you definitely don't want a primer that is going to "roll up" under whatever you do the final scuff with when the time comes...you'll have a whole new mess on your hands.

Another option would be to massage one of the phosphoric products into the metal with a scuff pad, section by section. Keep drips at bay and be careful with it -- get the rust dissolved as best you can then wipe *clean* with a damp cloth, then move to the next section. Again with this I would recommend scuffing once it comes time to prime/paint fully...I'm not a fan of trying to paint over hardened products of any sort without a good scuff to get things to adhere. I would recommend rolling out plastic under your tractor while you do this to keep concrete spots at bay if you drip a bit here and there.

Your primer cannot be an acid based primer to go over the phosphoric coating. I'm a fan of Kirker EnduroPrime epoxy primer these days. Fantastic product at a great price. It does take a couple hours to flash off for paint, but you might be able to turn your heat up to like 80* for a bit once done spraying to get around that...it sounds like you are a little pinched for time like the rest of us.

The only way in MY opinion that you will avoid re-scuffing whatever you put on the metal is if you prep the entire piece, prime, paint all with in a couple days.

Scuff pads:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/Scotch-Brite-Hand-Pad-7447/?N=5002385+3293241244&rt=rud

Epoxy primer:
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/kirker-enduro-prime-epoxy-primer-p-12620.aspx
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/kirker-enduro-prime-epoxy-primer-catalyst-p-12621.aspx
 
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