Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

Dieseltech


 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Greg_Ky
Long Time User


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1376


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

655a Ford backhoe with a Minimec in-line pump that has not run in six years, got it started today but the rack appears to be stuck wide open, any tips on freeing it up ? Money is real tight and sending the pump in is not an option. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Dieseltech
Tractor Guru


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 7513
Location: Indiana

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On any inline pump, just one stuck plunger will keep the rack from moving. Know you don't want to hear it, but it needs torn down to be saved correctly. Depending on hours use, and/or rust damage inside it will al least need return springs. Most need the governor weight set and cam bearings too, at least the one I just repaired did..
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob Bancroft
Tractor Guru


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 7989
Location: Aurora NY

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think it was a real stupid design to make that pump with its own oil reservoir. How many people think, or even know to maintain that?
First thing when I got my 655A I pulled the pump drain plug. Got a little red/rusty colored fluid. It wasn't oil. More like the viscosity of fuel. I maintained it as the book indicated. After a while, something acted up, I don't remember now just what. I called a pump shop, and was told the bearings were probably going, and if one fails and the drive gears climb over one another, I could have a real expensive mess. When I took the pump in, they wanted me to wait a few minutes while they pulled it apart. Sure enough, bearing fell out in pieces. Thinking about it now, I think the pump either gained, or lost its oil. Shop guy said the seal was probably shot because the bearings were going bad.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greg_Ky
Long Time User


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1376


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick reply. I pulled the side cover and all four plungers were going up and down.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Dieseltech
Tractor Guru


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 7513
Location: Indiana

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If all four plungers move OK, then next is usually the governor sleeve is stuck due to rust from setting. Would still need torn down to repair it correctly. The Simms GE governor is only fair when it's new, over time they really get sluggish compared to how Bosch RSV governor works.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
thepumpguysc
Regular


Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 361


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If pulling the pump is not an option..{not smart}
Then plug off the overflow drain {pig tail} & fill the pump full of ATF & acetone thru the big plug on top.
Let it sit for a day or 3.. pull the stop & bump the engine over a few revs..
TRY to move the rack back & forth BY HAND till it frees up..
If it doesn't free up right away, top it off w/ atf & give it a few more days & try again..
DONT let it start.!! U don't want that concoction used for lubrication of the bearings..
Once u get it free, drain that "stuff" out.. & refill w/ oil to the correct level..{side full plug}
U would rather overhaul an ENGINE rather than a PUMP?? Just sayin..
 
Back to top
View user's profile
AJ.
Tractor Expert


Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 2007
Location: UK

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is a reason for everything,pumps that are open coupled to the engine will have their own oil reservoir,otherwise they would need two oil lines,feed and return,open coupled pumps should have their oil changed every time the engine oil is changed,close coupled pumps use the engine oil,the pump fitted to the 655A is close coupled and fed from the engine,goes in from a line in the back and out through the front bearing into the timing train,the only other pump fitted to the 655/655A to my knowledge was the CAV DPA rotary pump,fuel lubed,the Simms Minimec pump was considered one of the best in the world esp for cold starting,not doing the maintenance is not the fault of the pump,all the old Bosch in-lines had two oil compartments,cambox and governor with a dipstick in each,nearly all pumps back fifty years ago were that way.if you take off the side plate do not be tempted to loosen or tighten any of the screws you see inside,if you do you will upset the settings.
AJ
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob Bancroft
Tractor Guru


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 7989
Location: Aurora NY

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The pump on my 655A is close coupled, as you say. It is NOT lubed from the engine. It has its own oil reservoir.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
AJ.
Tractor Expert


Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 2007
Location: UK

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The standard application for the 655 & 655A was a close coupled Simms in-line engine oil lubricated pump,Iv'e got the original Microfiche and it only shows the engine oil lubricated pump,those machines were built in early eighties which is much too late for to have a the reservoir type,there were not many reservoir types used after the 1970s,anything can be changed or modified on machines that old.
AJ
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob Bancroft
Tractor Guru


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 7989
Location: Aurora NY

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My 655A TLB from the mid 80's, and the manual agree. The manual shows changing the oil in the injector pump when you change the engine oil. It doesn't show anything else?! I don't understand the discrepancy with your information, except that I have the real thing here, and it agrees with the manual.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Greg_Ky
Long Time User


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1376


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob, mine is the same as yours, and manual shows the same. I did have a stuck plunger, popped the head off and lubed everything up, no sign of rust anywhere so I changed oil, fuel and filters and had a chance to work it all day yesterday and she never skipped a beat. A lot work has piled up for the old girl over the last few years around the farm.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
AJ.
Tractor Expert


Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 2007
Location: UK

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I seen the remark about the so called stupid design I thought to myself that age machine is unlikely to have its own oil and be open coupled to the engine even though that was the preferred method due for it been easier to change and the oil would be cleaner,doubting my memory I checked the parts microfiche I have,it does not show any inline pump cept the engine oil lubricated one,now that there is doubt again I have checked the on-line parts list,it also shows the same,why is the reservoir type pump not listed if it is used,they would differ as the engine oil lubricated pump does not have a seal at the front and the reservoir one would have to have one to retain the oil,could it be that the UK stock was different,that would not account for the US parts list not listing it either?,be happy with what you got stupid or not it is over thirty years old and I still say it is one of the best in the world,self lub or engine lubed.
AJ
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Dieseltech
Tractor Guru


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 7513
Location: Indiana

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Dieseltech Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'll take a Bosch A pump with RSV governor any day over a Simms. With or without engine lube oil, the RSV has automatic excess fuel/retard start as standard equipment. Simms has it on the AC engines on combines and other equipment, but Ford didn't buy it. The GE skate wheel type governor most Simms pumps use is sluggish compared to the RSV on the test stand. The Simms GX governor is much better than the GE is..
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders and Backhoes All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters