Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery

Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

1953 IH R112. 6v positive ground. Generator has been rebuilt. New battery. New Voltage regulator. Just rewired the entire truck. Polarized the generator. Generator is not charging battery. The ammeter is original and it sits neutral. Turning the lights on puts the ammeter negative and turning them back off it goes neutral. Revving the engine does not change anything on the ammeter. I've also put a multimeter on the battery and get no change with the truck on and revving.

In electrical for dummy terms, how should I go about tracing the problem? How do I test each component? Can I assume the ammeter has nothing to do with it since it moves when turning the headlights on/off? Hopefully I didn't screw something up when polarizing.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
John T
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Dec 1998
Posts: 18473


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you want a basic straight forward simple as possible systematic troubleshooting procedure for determining the cause of non charging CHECK THE LINK BELOW. It can help find if the problem is the Generator or the Voltage Regulator or something in between. In Para 5 it shows how to essentially by pass the Voltage Regulator to see if it or the Generator is the problem. That's a simple test where you dead ground the gennys FLD post which calls for max charge to see if its a genny or a VR or other problem.

NOTE the Voltage Regulator and the Generator NEED GOOD GROUNDS TO WORK so check easy simple things first including good grounds on VR and Genny.

NOTE If the charging system is working the 6 volt battery (which is 6.3 volts if full charged at rest and stabilized) at fast RPM its voltage should eventually rise to at least 6.5 up to 7 or so.

NOTE my test is for CLASS A CHARGING SYSTEMS if you have a Class B its different

NOTE the charging system must be intact and correct to work, hope yours is correct ????

NOTE if wired correct charging amps must get to and pass through the ammeter so if it were bad and and an open circuit the
battery cant get charged

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=458743

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting

 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob
Tractor Guru


Joined: 03 Jan 1998
Posts: 54226


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That truck would have a Delco "A circuit" generator, and you would polarize it but momentarily jumoering the "BATT" and "A" (Armature) or "GEN" terminals at the regulator.

Next step would be to "full-field" by grounding the "F" terminal at the generator and noting if it now charges.

If Ammeter still doesn't show charge, check the voltage at the generator's "A" terminal and report back.

Don't run it with the generator "full-fielded" for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

Go to the link below to look at a good IH manual explaining vehicle electrical starting, ignition, and charging systems.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1310%20Electrical/index.html

You will have to copy the link and paste it into your browser, as it does not work as a direct link here.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-John T wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:40:50 05/15/19) If you want a basic straight forward simple as possible systematic troubleshooting procedure for determining the cause of non charging CHECK THE LINK BELOW. It can help find if the problem is the Generator or the Voltage Regulator or something in between. In Para 5 it shows how to essentially by pass the Voltage Regulator to see if it or the Generator is the problem. That's a simple test where you dead ground the gennys FLD post which calls for max charge to see if its a genny or a VR or other problem.

NOTE the Voltage Regulator and the Generator NEED GOOD GROUNDS TO WORK so check easy simple things first including good grounds on VR and Genny.

NOTE If the charging system is working the 6 volt battery (which is 6.3 volts if full charged at rest and stabilized) at fast RPM its voltage should eventually rise to at least 6.5 up to 7 or so.

NOTE my test is for CLASS A CHARGING SYSTEMS if you have a Class B its different

NOTE the charging system must be intact and correct to work, hope yours is correct ????

NOTE if wired correct charging amps must get to and pass through the ammeter so if it were bad and and an open circuit the
battery cant get charged

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=458743

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting


I will check grounds. I don't have a specific ground wire for either my generator or the VR though. Either I'm missing something or it is grounded another way.

I tried googling class A and B charging systems and couldn't find what the difference is. Back to electrical for dummys. Is this something you can elaborate on?

Will check on these first and then try your troubleshooting techniques. Thanks.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Bob wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:50:09 05/15/19) That truck would have a Delco "A circuit" generator, and you would polarize it but momentarily jumoering the "BATT" and "A" (Armature) or "GEN" terminals at the regulator.

Next step would be to "full-field" by grounding the "F" terminal at the generator and noting if it now charges.

If Ammeter still doesn't show charge, check the voltage at the generator's "A" terminal and report back.

Don't run it with the generator "full-fielded" for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

Go to the link below to look at a good IH manual explaining vehicle electrical starting, ignition, and charging systems.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1310%20Electrical/index.html

You will have to copy the link and paste it into your browser, as it does not work as a direct link here.


Got it.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
1954Frank
Regular


Joined: 08 Sep 2018
Posts: 126


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Rachel Gingell has two videos on YouTube troubleshooting 6v + ground systems on Farmall tractors, one a Cub and one a 300, which are nearly identical to your IHC truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II-6nOw28J8
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo5wQwvv9WE&t=17s

I hope these are useful.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

1954Frank wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:09:15 05/15/19) Rachel Gingell has two videos on YouTube troubleshooting 6v + ground systems on Farmall tractors, one a Cub and one a 300, which are nearly identical to your IHC truck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II-6nOw28J8
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo5wQwvv9WE&t=17s

I hope these are useful.


Great. I like videos for a visual and explanation.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
John T
Tractor Guru


Joined: 14 Dec 1998
Posts: 18473


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

YOUR NEW QUESTIONS:

A) "I tried googling class A and B charging systems and couldn't find what the difference is. Back to electrical for dummys. Is this something you can elaborate on?

YES On Class A the field receives its ground externally (via Voltage Regulator or Low High manual controller) via the gennnys FLD post and the resistance and quality of the ground regulates field current and output. On Class B fields are internally grounded and its the voltage on the FLD post that's regulated to control output.

B) "Will check on these first and then try your troubleshooting techniques"

Good plan, click below

John T
John Ts Troubleshooting

 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is the voltage regulator supposed to get its ground through the truck? The new VR I put on has rubber washers between the VR and truck. Should I remove these rubber washers?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JMOR
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 24216


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

nrowles wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:44:35 05/17/19) Is the voltage regulator supposed to get its ground through the truck? The new VR I put on has rubber washers between the VR and truck. Should I remove these rubber washers?
some VRs have a strap at one of mounting bolts that provides ground via that bolt even with rubber mounts. If not just add a wire.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-John T wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:40:50 05/15/19) If you want a basic straight forward simple as possible systematic troubleshooting procedure for determining the cause of non charging CHECK THE LINK BELOW. It can help find if the problem is the Generator or the Voltage Regulator or something in between. In Para 5 it shows how to essentially by pass the Voltage Regulator to see if it or the Generator is the problem. That's a simple test where you dead ground the gennys FLD post which calls for max charge to see if its a genny or a VR or other problem.

NOTE the Voltage Regulator and the Generator NEED GOOD GROUNDS TO WORK so check easy simple things first including good grounds on VR and Genny.

NOTE If the charging system is working the 6 volt battery (which is 6.3 volts if full charged at rest and stabilized) at fast RPM its voltage should eventually rise to at least 6.5 up to 7 or so.

NOTE my test is for CLASS A CHARGING SYSTEMS if you have a Class B its different

NOTE the charging system must be intact and correct to work, hope yours is correct ????

NOTE if wired correct charging amps must get to and pass through the ammeter so if it were bad and and an open circuit the
battery cant get charged

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=458743

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting


#6 in your test showed charge. From what that says the VR relay is bad. Thanks.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
JMOR
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 24216


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

nrowles wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:43:13 05/17/19)
CVPost-John T wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:40:50 05/15/19) If you want a basic straight forward simple as possible systematic troubleshooting procedure for determining the cause of non charging CHECK THE LINK BELOW. It can help find if the problem is the Generator or the Voltage Regulator or something in between. In Para 5 it shows how to essentially by pass the Voltage Regulator to see if it or the Generator is the problem. That's a simple test where you dead ground the gennys FLD post which calls for max charge to see if its a genny or a VR or other problem.

NOTE the Voltage Regulator and the Generator NEED GOOD GROUNDS TO WORK so check easy simple things first including good grounds on VR and Genny.

NOTE If the charging system is working the 6 volt battery (which is 6.3 volts if full charged at rest and stabilized) at fast RPM its voltage should eventually rise to at least 6.5 up to 7 or so.

NOTE my test is for CLASS A CHARGING SYSTEMS if you have a Class B its different

NOTE the charging system must be intact and correct to work, hope yours is correct ????

NOTE if wired correct charging amps must get to and pass through the ammeter so if it were bad and and an open circuit the
battery cant get charged

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=458743

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting


#6 in your test showed charge. From what that says the VR relay is bad. Thanks.
How about his #4? It will appear bad if not grounded.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

i Ran a ground wire to the vr and confirmed the vr case was grounded. Did this before #6
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

nrowles wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:27:55 05/17/19) i Ran a ground wire to the vr and confirmed the vr case was grounded. Did this before #6


Can someone confirm if this is correct? I've told a few people my new VR is bad and they all say it might not be grounded. I ran a wire from the truck body to one of the screws that hold the cap on the VR. I then clipped a jumper to the other cap screw hole/threads and to one of the leads on my multimeter. Then the other lead on the multimeter to the battery and it was showing voltage. Does this confirm my VR is properly grounded? I would think so but a few have questioned me on it.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
nrowles
Regular


Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 488
Location: Pennsylvania

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Truck - Generator Not Charging Battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Or is there a different way I should be grounding the VR?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Tractor Talk All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters