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Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion

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Kevin in MN
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:43:20 07/04/19)
JMOR wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:58:13 07/04/19) Should sell just fine.


Hope so - hate to have to eat the startup cost. If that happened and TOOH found out I'd probably have to spend that much again on some bling to calm the domestic waters Rolling Eyes

TOH


Hey if you need some upfront $ I'll commit and pay for 1 @ $50 now.

Kevin
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kevin in MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:42:39 07/05/19)
TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:43:20 07/04/19)
JMOR wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:58:13 07/04/19) Should sell just fine.


Hope so - hate to have to eat the startup cost. If that happened and TOOH found out I'd probably have to spend that much again on some bling to calm the domestic waters Rolling Eyes

TOH


Hey if you need some upfront $ I'll commit and pay for 1 @ $50 now.

Kevin


Thank you Kevin but I was just being a smart a$$. I am really busy right now and dont need a new project but I am trying out s new CNC shop so this fits in quite nicely. If things go as planned I will have a few of these to test out in 2-3 weeks and you can be the first Guinea pig. You looking to stay with points or are you going EI as well?

TOH
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I have a relationship with a small CNC shop if you are interested in a quote... He's home based and has it going on Smile...
 
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Kevin in MN
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:56:10 07/05/19)
Kevin in MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:42:39 07/05/19)
TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:43:20 07/04/19)
JMOR wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:58:13 07/04/19) Should sell just fine.


Hope so - hate to have to eat the startup cost. If that happened and TOOH found out I'd probably have to spend that much again on some bling to calm the domestic waters Rolling Eyes

TOH


Hey if you need some upfront $ I'll commit and pay for 1 @ $50 now.

Kevin


Thank you Kevin but I was just being a smart a$$. I am really busy right now and dont need a new project but I am trying out s new CNC shop so this fits in quite nicely. If things go as planned I will have a few of these to test out in 2-3 weeks and you can be the first Guinea pig. You looking to stay with points or are you going EI as well?

TOH


I built an EI set up with a Ford 2.3 reluctor and Pickup going back to an HEI module

[img]https://jtvltg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4md1u1ldUR8kJY87zJosUiUOqdMgoEB5l_sb0XYb9XuMuCwlENUXmBdGjPztaMpNAZRsbX9IDviS1Bl-8RGtQ_fkbaAcUjiM_WQdMqQX2ctC0GxB2i4drps0YF-oe-jX045NmGb7gd1kt7cy6QiCwoOIpIt6RJquHnQAiA5kfOe5pD2W-5fxnFOZj9t3IEerWovzh5ZaHMNN54mg0OOUC_0Q?width=1620&height=1454&cropmode=none[/img][img]https://h5sgiq.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mnWRNsYm8njtLHd-3lACyLAHo7-ueaHyDwv54EHfwTRolf6o9cY3JifxT83DE3H7lIPKXgcHMoNtsfqVaTfTKfIpNbrEST2UCIGq-HJy0pbSeJysPIOa1H2RSErAiVzNwMLy3nAZe5MtTzBVq6k0-HRa_A7TJt0LDCeD1i9bT3IOYa-jExjD7qTrNCGDkKU-qyOXnjACZnQ20WRZt1FkhIQ?width=2639&height=2055&cropmode=none[/img]
 
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Ken(Ark)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:


I'm pricing 50 units out as I type.
  1. CNC cut acetal top covers - 50 @ 6.00 each = $300
  2. Sacrificial Honda distributor caps (Standard Ignition) for coil towers - 50 @ $4.00 each = $200
  3. New front mount distributor caps - 50 @ $8.00 - $400
  4. Miscellaneous hardware and shipping charges - $50
Looks like $950 or a bit more for materials. Add ~$20 each for labor and you get a unit price of $35-$40.

TOH


I have a guy at work that is into the 3D printing . I do not know what kind of resins they have on the market or how well they hold up to heat .

I remember years ago someone was going to make a mold for a cap that would block off the top of the distributor and hold the new round coil .

The thing I liked about the square coil gutted conversion is you did not need to modify the distributor cap so if you ever replaced it you did not need to fabricate a new one , just use a standard part and cork gasket. The standard bail held the gutted coil . More of a plug and play set up .
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ken(Ark) wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:32:06 07/07/19)

TheOldHokie wrote:


I'm pricing 50 units out as I type.
  1. CNC cut acetal top covers - 50 @ 6.00 each = $300
  2. Sacrificial Honda distributor caps (Standard Ignition) for coil towers - 50 @ $4.00 each = $200
  3. New front mount distributor caps - 50 @ $8.00 - $400
  4. Miscellaneous hardware and shipping charges - $50
Looks like $950 or a bit more for materials. Add ~$20 each for labor and you get a unit price of $35-$40.

TOH


I have a guy at work that is into the 3D printing . I do not know what kind of resins they have on the market or how well they hold up to heat .

I remember years ago someone was going to make a mold for a cap that would block off the top of the distributor and hold the new round coil .

The thing I liked about the square coil gutted conversion is you did not need to modify the distributor cap so if you ever replaced it you did not need to fabricate a new one , just use a standard part and cork gasket. The standard bail held the gutted coil . More of a plug and play set up .


As far as my project goes details like that are very much in flux. You dont need to keep the old coil to accomplish your ends and I have been giving both those ideas considerable thought. It all comes down to price. How much would you be willing to pay for a 100% plug and play conversion cover?

At this point I haven't settled on the specifics of how this gets done but it won't be a dead copy of what Hobo or Bob did so I am open to any and all suggestions.

Using an unmodified distributor cap is high on my list but complicates the addition of the coil tower to the cover. On the other hand It also eliminates the time and cost of the cap modification. Using the OEM bail to secure the cover simply requires a spacer which is just a small amount of additional work and material. The cover should also fit over the condensor so it can be used with an unmodified contact breaker ignition as well as EI. Installation of the conversion should be as simple as replacing the OEM cap and coil. All of those possibilities will be evaluated as soon as I settle on material and get a small supply of the basic cover on hand to experiment with.

TOH
 
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Kevin in MN
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It would be interesting to see what these people could with the OEM cap with a tower fiber-glassed to it to mold from. Or a a hollowed out coil with a tower added.


http://www.antiquedistributorcaps.com/Custom_Cap_Inquiry.htm


Kevin
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kevin in MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:21:46 07/07/19) It would be interesting to see what these people could with the OEM cap with a tower fiber-glassed to it to mold from. Or a a hollowed out coil with a tower added.


http://www.antiquedistributorcaps.com/Custom_Cap_Inquiry.htm


Kevin


I doubt they could beat this for price or performance. This is my "proof of design" cover made from some Delrin (acetal) sheet/rod and a few bits of common OTS hardware. The HT tower screws into the top cover. The tower has an aluminum sleeve and simple spring loaded contact point in it that makes the HT connection to the OEM cap in the same fashion as the OEM coil so there is no need for modifying the cap. The backside of the cover is also relieved to clear the condensor so it can remain in the distributor if you are staying with contact breaker points. All that remains is to add a provision for the primary connection and a means of clamping it down. Right now I am considering three options for the clamping system:
  1. Add a spacer to the cover and use the OEM bail
  2. Replace the screw that holds the primary connection to the points with a stud and bring it up through the top of the cover as a terminal connection point for the primary lead. The external nut on that connection would then do double duty and clamp the cover to the distributor.
  3. Add a couple slotted tabs to the sides and use self threading screws in the holes for the bail to clamp them to the body.
Right now I am leaning towards #2 because it is easy and does both jobs but I am open to suggestions.

There are a few other details to work out but nothing major. I made this one by hand but I will be ordering a batch of the top covers from a CNC shop along with matching rubber or rubber impregnated cork gaskets "real soon now". I just need to verify all of the geometry is right before finalizing the drawing.

Kudos to Bob and Hobo - this is is way easier than gutting a coil.

TOH






 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:14:25 07/11/19)

All that remains is to add a provision for the primary connection and a means of clamping it down. Right now I am considering three options for the clamping system:
  1. Add a spacer to the cover and use the OEM bail
  2. Replace the screw that holds the primary connection to the points with a stud and bring it up through the top of the cover as a terminal connection point for the primary lead. The external nut on that connection would then do double duty and clamp the cover to the distributor.
  3. Add a couple slotted tabs to the sides and use self threading screws in the holes for the bail to clamp them to the body.
Right now I am leaning towards #2 because it is easy and does both jobs but I am open to suggestions.



I made an executive decision and went with an 8-32 stud and three nuts as a combination primary terminal/cover clamp. Clamps the cover nice and tight and with the addition of a quality gasket should outperform the OEM bail and cork gasket.

Everything looks good so I am going to put the approved stamp on the drawing and get some quotes for the Delrin pieces. Wonder if someone can supply it in Ford red Wink

TOH




 
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carlntexas
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Looks like the perfect way to convert to the round coil I would buy one, but I'v already done the Bob thing.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote


#2) I don't like attaching the cover to the points post, how are you going to set the timing ?... I doubt it going to make much difference but the points plate is locked down and takes the option away for us that can set the timing with a light...

I would keep it so the dist cap can be removed if the dist needs to come off the engine... I would knock the upper vent out of the dist body and run the primary wire out to the coil...










 
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Ken(Ark)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:


I am leaning towards #2 because it is easy and does both jobs but I am open to suggestions.



Zip Ties ???


Looks Great , Simple and Clean . They should sell quickly .
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I hadn't bothered to read any of this thread till now but just read the whole thing.
You guys are great and those are some very clever mods to upgrade those old coils.
But what I really like best is being able to talk about this stuff here without starting a major chit storm.
It only took about 20 years for That to happen.
But genius will out.
It always does in the end.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hobo,NC wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:52:47 07/11/19)
#2) I don't like attaching the cover to the points post, how are you going to set the timing ?... I doubt it going to make much difference but the points plate is locked down and takes the option away for us that can set the timing with a light...

I would keep it so the dist cap can be removed if the dist needs to come off the engine... I would knock the upper vent out of the dist body and run the primary wire out to the coil...


Timing was/is my biggest concern with #2. You can still set the timing but you need to bend the stud slightly if you move the adjustment way off center. I was going to have a short slot cut rather than the hole I drilled to minimize the need for the bend.

You can still remove the cap and/or the cover - both were hard requirements from the git-go. Another is no drilling or other modifications to the cap or body of the distributor. Setting the timing with a timing light was not on my radar How do you do that with the distributor on the tractor or is that a trade secret Wink

I considered using the condensor hold down screw rather than the primary post on the distributor. I'll have another look at that.

Keep the comments coming - I'd like to get it right the first time.....

TOH
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: Bob's Front Mount External Coil conversion Reply to specific post Reply with quote


You have to Locate TDC then make are mark a indicator at the front crank pulley... THEN have a timing light that will work with 6/12V that does not pick up interference from those useless aggravating copper core plug wires...

Its just a matter of loosening the hold down screw for the points plate timing adjuster and moving it with a long screwdriver... I have done this with the tractor running...

Conversions like this are giving you the options to get deep into timing, dwell ETC Smile All these things to nail perfect operation of the front mount dist. to lessen the agitation its a win win even if you don't go the extra mile are tool up for it the option is there Smile
 
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