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COOP E4 stopped charging


 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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Joined: 12 May 2013
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Location: Geauga County, Ohio

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Same one I had a lot of charging system questions last year. It's been charging good since then. I was brush hoggng a field Sunday and it was OK. Took it out yesterday for more and it showed no charge so I didn't do much. Checked it out today. I'm getting voltage from the generator so I went to the regulator and cleaned the contacts, no help. I found the nut was loose on the battery side stud of the relay. I cleaned everything good, put a new end on the wire from the generator, new washers and tightened it up. Started it up and it was discharging. I polarized the generator but it still discharges when running. What could be wrong?
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you work through my Troubleshooting Procedure (if yours is a Class A charging System) it can help find the problem. It includes temporarily grounding of the gennys FLD post to see if it charges then or not???? If so but NOT otherwise the genny itself is okay but the VR may be bad or not well grounded or a wires bad.

Give it a look and post back any questions

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=2060825


John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting

 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I grounded the field post, forgot to mention, no change. I can understand no charge but why would it discharge. Acts like it did when charging but on the wrong side of the ammeter.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

See if it continues to discharge if you unhook (dont let that wire short to fame) the wire on the BAT terminal on the VR. It leads up to the Load (NOT battery/starter) side of ammeter. If a VR's internal cutout relay is stuck closed that causes a big time discharge upon shutdown. However the cutout should normally be an OPEN circuit but once the genny produces sufficient voltage it closes BAT to the GEN/ARM terminal so the gennys armature output can charge the battery. When running the coil draws around 4 or so amps and that should show as a discharge if the genny isn't producing and lights add even more if turned on. IE if no genny and running Id expect a 4 amp battery discharge...?.

If a dead grounded genny FLD post still produces no charge and if you temporarily jump BAT to GEN/ARM in case the cutout relay isn't closing and still no charge, the genny must be bad. Insure both genny and VR have good grounds.

John T
 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It was only showing the slight discharge of the key on load. Started discharging after I manually closed the cutout relay. It wasn't closing with the higher RPM like it should. Looked just like if the ammeter was connected backwards. The voltmeter barely showed 6 volts so maybe the gen is the problem. It was working great a couple of days ago. I'll check that stuff tomorrow, Thanks John.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With the cutout relay open if alls well there shouldn't be any battery discharge via the generator as its NOT connected. If manually closed not running there will be a major discharge. Again with FLD dead grounded and BAT temporarily jumped to GEN/ARM when running if theres no charge the VR is essentially out of the circuit so the genny may be the problem. In my Troubleshooting Procedure there's the MOTOR TEST which is another way to test a generator, give it a try maybe.

John T
 
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Mike(NEOhio)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Went to work on it this morning. I prepped another regulator in case I had to change it out. I tested the reg and gen grounds for continuity before I even started it. All good grounds. Started it up and it was charging. Go figure. Took it out for an hour or so of mowing and after a short time charging the meter stayed on 0, which it has done before. One question, John. I put a new battery on this year, 6v 700 amp from TSC. Could it be that with the mowing time lately the battery is fully charged so not accepting more? I have doubts it was at full charge when I got it. Still doesn't explain why is was discharging yesterday but as long as it's working I'm not gonna complain.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"One question, John. I put a new battery on this year, 6v 700 amp from TSC. Could it be that with the mowing time lately the battery is fully charged so not accepting more"

While in "theory" a high tech smart charging system (like the Progressive Dynamics PD 9280 in my RV) will supply a small so called "float charge" to a battery as it approaches 100% SOC, an old tractor and mechanical voltage regulator isn't anywhere near that sophisticated. When I was a used tractor dealer and farmer and worked with literally hundreds of old tractors I cant say I ever saw one where the regulation system completely stopped all charging amps because the battery was "full charged" (IE it may drop to a few amps) ALL SUBJECT TO RPM regardless if it ran 24/7. Those old gennys didn't supply very many amps regardless and the ignition coil (unless a magneto) is drawing 3 to 4 amps all the time which the genny has to replenish. IE if the coil is drawing 4 amps and the charging system is supplying 4 amps an ammeter will be in the middle.

If you had a quality volt meter and let the battery be at rest and stabilized if it reads 12.6 volts that's pretty well full charged.

Soooooooooooo NO I don't think its the battery is full charged and isn't accepting more using a genny and VR system. It still depends however on the type and quality and charging parameters of the VR. At low RPM with lights on even a decent charging system might show a small discharge but at fast RPM many will still show a small charge.

I fear we are "overthinking" this and those old systems just aren't that smart or sophisticated...??.So I cant guarantee the above is accurate, too many variables to give a good answer...?...

John T
 
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olgentdc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: COOP E4 stopped charging Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank You John for printing this again and again ,,,. IT IS LIKE A BIBLE for Me.
 
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