Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check

Goto page Previous  1, 2

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 82581
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I use the NH271 I run 1st gear on either the D-17 or WD45 or Oliver 77 and run it about 3/4 throttle. Most of my windrows are pretty big so it feeds in pretty fast. But I also have things set so I do a 35-40lbs bale since 35lbs is suppose to be my limit for lifting and my wife also has to help when we bale hay.. We stack it i nth Tack run loft but have an elevator to move them up there
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Mike(NEOhio)
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 4805
Location: Geauga County, Ohio

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I put a new bill in my 273 last year and the parts lists showed different bills for sisal and plastic.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Absent Minded Farmer
Tractor Expert


Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2194
Location: Gehl Country, Wi.

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Physics?! On a tractor forum? Yes! However, I'm long out of practice. Something about elastically deformable matter came to mind.... and some static.
;v) You mentioned pulling the springs off of the dogs. I'm curious as to why? Also, did you remove the chamber wedges?

Mike
 
Back to top
View user's profile
lastcowboy32
Long Time User


Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 1382


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Mike(NEOhio) wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:50:36 08/13/19) I put a new bill in my 273 last year and the parts lists showed different bills for sisal and plastic.


Good point. I eliminated that as a possibility, because I know the previous owner of the baler. He was always used twine up to the point where he mothballed the baler a few years back.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
lastcowboy32
Long Time User


Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 1382


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I replaced a broken spring on one of the hay dogs with a spring out of my 276.

Right now, all of the dog springs are there, but they are all a little "lazy", even the one from the 276. They are cheap... going to replace them all as a matter of course.

I never really thought about wedges, but that's a good point. I replaced some wedges in my 276 last year, and I have a few spares around.

Wedges can sometimes help with the issue of "bale rebound" against the twine and allow you to bale tighter. Might be worth considering.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
lastcowboy32
Long Time User


Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 1382


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The other issue with haydogs this year is the humidity. We have been baling in fits and starts with lots of rain in between, even with the knotters under a tarp, the chaff on the knotters gets gummy, and the stuff under the haydogs is the consistency of...like...packed, semi-damp silage.

It won't blow out with air, I have to lift the dog and clean under it with a screwdriver or prybar... otherwise, there is always this packed chaff getting under the haydog and staying there; which hurts their function.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Mike in Mn.
Long Time User


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 1276


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just read this post, lot of ideas, I am no expert but have baled for years with a NH super 68 and a Massey #10. Have them both dialed in and they work great but so slow, bought a 3 year old CaseIh this spring and will never look back.I do 5 to 8 thousand a year, so had to have the old balers tuned and they worked good, from my experience with my old balers, start at the beginning, knives sharp and plunger adjusted tight so it shears the hay clean. Knotter stack shimmed fairly tight side to side,twine discs timed. I have never had to run the twine disc springs extra tight or to use doubles. I bale in the hills and dry hay on top and damper hay along the bottoms and around swamps. One thing that has helped my old NH is to adjust the needles, use the book, they need to rub the frame to eliminate vibration and be tight in to the discs. Do the needles first and them the twine fingers, they are important to be set right. How bad are the eyes wore in your needles? One of the main things and this may not seem important but it made a world of difference on mine, DO NOT BOLT THE KNOTTER SECTIONS DOWN TIGHT, If you use a bolt use a nylock and leave the bolt loose so the knotter gear can bounce, the newer balers just use a pin with a clip in it.One of the main problems over the last 10 or so years is bad twine, I use to use 7200 sisal in both balers and it got so bad it had so many thick spots it just could not make a knot. I switched the Massey over to plastic and it would bale all year and never miss a bale and we used to do 5 thousand with it. We used it for 1st cut. We used the NH for 2nd cut, it had a better pick up for short hay, using 9000 twine it will miss one in a hundred or so, it's always a bad spot in the twine, usually too thick it can't tie or a shin spot and will just pull apart away from the knot. If yours will tie with plastic that is what I would use, my newer baler says right in the book to use only plastic. so I use 9600/170. It has only missed one knot in 4 thousand bales, and I think it was changing twine balls and tried to tie a knot on top of my knot. So that is my story, I would quit using that crappy sisal twine and use plastic. Good luck!!
 
Back to top
View user's profile
SVcummins
Tractor Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 11429


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I?ve messed around a lot with twine disc tension
mark the nut and the knotter then tighten the nut
maybe an 1/8 turn tighter it doesn?t take much the
reason to mark is so you can put the nut back in the
exact same spot you started or you can be like me
and spend the rest of the day trying to figure out
where you had it . It?s kind of like adjusting a
combine do one thing at a time and keep track of
where it was so you can put it back
 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 24866
Location: Chester NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Cowboy, I posted to you before how my thrower used to burn twine but hasn't in two seasons since I adjusted the thrower. Have you checked for that adjustment? I have found in 35 years with balers that the most critical thing is that the needles need to get the twine to where tucker fingers and the disc can grab it. Have you rolled it over by hand to verify that the needles are bringing the twine to exactly the right place? Bad twine; poly vs. sisal is just a give up excuse, unless the baler specifies different parts for poly vs. sisal. A JD 336 that I used to have was rusted enough under the knotters that a heavy charge of hay just before the knotters cycled could bulge the metal so that the tucker fingers would not cycle properly. Do you have rust where your tucker fingers mount? Have you checked both the upper and lower hay dogs? Do you have baffles in the chamber after the knotters to help keep the hay from bouncing back?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
lastcowboy32
Long Time User


Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 1382


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good morning Showcrop...

I'm actually not having an issue with the thrower burning the plastic anymore. Once the treads on the thrower belts wore to match the new thrower alignment from replacing the thrower brackets, that went away.

It's really just a preference. I like sisal. Especially untreated. I can burn it in my woodstove or a campfire to dispose of it.

I also think that baling great with plastic vs sisal (like you said, unless there is a specialized part involved) is a symptom showing that something subtle is off with your knotters.

It's just a preference of mine that I want to get these to work with sisal. Even if I do, I realize that sisal is variable. Judging by the twine that I can buy, my goal would be to get about one broken bale per 100 or 200 with sisal. I almost don't think it's possible, with the variability of sisal nowadays, to get much better than that.

You are correct about the bulge under the tucker fingers. That is exactly the issue that this baler had coming out of mothballs last year. The metal under the tucker fingers had corroded and swelled; so they needed to be lubricated and cycled to run freely. I haven't really had much issue (that I know of) with the tucker fingers since then.

BUT... could I be having the issue of the metal bending (swelling) a little with a heavy charge of hay? That's interesting.

I am going to consider replacing or adding some wedges, might help.

As to the other comments above, my needles are aligned well. I haven't looked at the wear in the eye of the needles... that's interesting.

I have the manual for both of my balers; which have sections on knotters.

But I just ordered the dedicated service manual for NH standard and heavy duty knotters. 26 bucks on Amazon. Probably a bargain, if it helps.

Rain is in the forecast; so I'll definitely have some time to fiddle.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 24866
Location: Chester NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote



"two pigtails with curls but no knot." is what happens when your tucker fingers aren't cycling properly. To solve the bulging problem on my JD 336 I cut some thin metal out and then cut pieces of 3/4 angle stock to fit on each side of the opening that the needles come up through and welded them in place Those pieces gave the top of the chamber strength again and the problem went away.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
lastcowboy32
Long Time User


Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 1382


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Yup. My brother thinks that there are a few problems going on. Based on the fact that we see a couple of different symptoms over thousands of bales... sometimes the squiggly pigtails... sometimes catching knots... sometimes acting as if it just plain pulled out, didn't form any knot and simply laid in another twine for the next bale.

I couldn't see what the issue with the tuckers could be, since they are free to move, seem to be adjusted correctly and such... but your suggestion that they could be getting impeded by swelling of the chamber is possible, since the plates under them are very corroded.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
BillinCentralMO
Long Time User


Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 990


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I?m not going to be much help - but maybe you can just buy a new baler with all the money you?ll make - when you
release your new hit country music song , ? I?ve Baled a Million Bales ?. You think ?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
SVcummins
Tractor Guru


Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 11429


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: NH Knotters, problem solution sanity check Reply to specific post Reply with quote















 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Implement Alley All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters