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8N Serial Number Question


 
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Lou F 1950 8N
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have owned an 8n for several years that I use around my horse farm. Never really had to get into what serial number it was, since most of the parts I have ordered were pretty easy to find. It has a front distrbutor, original 6 volt system. wagner loader. I haven't had to do anything major except tune up.
I am getting ready to do a rear wheel seal replacement and was trying to determine if I have inner rear seals so I could order the parts. I cleaned off my serial number plate and found I have *8n264567* . After finding this I went down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out what exact year I have and if any major stuff had been replaced with used items of a different year. I went through John Smith's Identification article and the one thing that jumped out was the front mount distributor. According to everything I find the change to a side mount distributor was at serial # 263844. So is my tractor an oddball or is this changeover number just an estimate and there was some engine overlap around this time.
Thanks for any info you can offer.


 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Can you read the block casting code behind the starter? Does it say 8N B below the casting code?
75 Tips

 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On which side of the block is the generator mounted?

Can you post a photo of the generator and it's mount?
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


HiYa Lou-
A very interesting 8N you have. Here is my take on it. You have a front mount distributor you state, and if all other identifiers fit the criteria for the front mount like RH generator, early steering box, et al, then that?s the important point and the s/n doesn?t mean a whole lot anyway. You are correct in that the transition from the front to side mount distributor occurred in mid-1950, April, approximately at s/n 263844. Your s/n *8N-264567* would be a 1950 Model, and technically should have the side mount. BUT, you are only off 723 units, that?s a days? production if not more, but realize the change was an approximate estimate of when Ford was to revise the electrical system. Also, know that only the engine blocks then, and only then, were hand stamped once the engine passed a QC Inspection break-In Test Period. Blocks were not stamped at the Rouge foundry. Blocks were cast, sent to a 30 day hold period, and then machined. Why? The reason is because cast iron requires a 30 day ?green period? to cure. Machining the brittle material would break tooling and the castings if machined too soon. It?s sort of like seasoning firewood; you don?t cut and burn fresh green trees as it won?t burn. Once engine passed QC Inspection, they were sent to a ?hold area? at random in no particular order. When the passed finished assembled engines were then pulled, at random, to the assembly line, they were not in any particle sequential order either. The final assembly line didn?t run with number 1, then number 2, and so on. They didn?t care, there was nobody keeping score and worrying if some 80 years later a guy wanted to know the date his tractor was born. Early 8N engine blocks had a boss tag attached to the starter pocket when block was cast with an engine casting code date on them. This did identify the exact date that the block was cast, but not the tractor build date. My early 8N has s/n *8N-I55I3* and the casting code date is September 16, 1947. Add 30 days later and you can get an APPROXIMATE tractor build date of around October 14, 1947 ?the day Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier. I hope I answered your question.


Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
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Kirk-NJ
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hard to say unless you know the history of the tractor who did what, when. Here's my 1948 side dizzy conversion. The block has the early serial number and correct casting
numbers. Could yours have been converted just the opposite, who knows. Could the dealer have replaced the block and restamped the numbers, anybodies guess. What is your date
code and embossed letters just behind your starter?




 
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Lou F 1950 8N
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Looks like 8N-B

 
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Lou F 1950 8N
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Generator is on RH Side. Hard to get good pic with loader frame in the way.



 
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Lou F 1950 8N
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the assembly info. Didn't know about cast iron having to cure. I figured it was probably just some crossover of old and new during final assembly. And no it doesn't really matter that much to me when exactly it was made, it was just a puzzle I had to work through. I will just have to keep in mind that the serial number cutoffs may not always work for this tractor and I will have to do a little more investigation when ordering parts.
 
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deanostoybox
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You have an interesting engine there. 8N-B and serial number both indicate side mount distributor. On the left side of the engine near the front and about half way between the head and oil pan should be two "bosses" with threaded holes where the generator mount goes. The oil fill tube should be 5" from the front of the block to the front of the tube. If so you do have a side mount distributor engine that has been converted to front mount for some unknown reason.

Ultimately the only way to know for sure if you have inner axle seals is to pull an axle and see.
 
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Lou F 1950 8N
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-deanostoybox wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:37:12 08/20/19) You have an interesting engine there. 8N-B and serial number both indicate side mount distributor. On the left side of the engine near the front and about half way between the head and oil pan should be two "bosses" with threaded holes where the generator mount goes. The oil fill tube should be 5" from the front of the block to the front of the tube. If so you do have a side mount distributor engine that has been converted to front mount for some unknown reason.

Ultimately the only way to know for sure if you have inner axle seals is to pull an axle and see.


I guess someone could have taken a used bare block and changed over all their stuff. Didn't know that was possible. Sounds like a lot of work. I do recall seeing two unused threaded studs on the front left side of the engine where a generator would mount. I'll have to look at that again.
 
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deanostoybox
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" guess someone could have taken a used bare block and changed over all their stuff. Didn't know that was possible. Sounds like a lot of work"

Easier to change side mount engine to front mount distributor than going the other way.

One other thing comes to mind. There are date codes on front side of the axle trumpets. Mine has G261 (7-26-51) on the left trumpet and H21 (8-2-51) on the right. My hydraulic pump is dated 7-26-51. Cannot read the date code on the engine block as at some point in time it must have had a leaky battery. SN 8N409291 puts the engine in the 1951 range.
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Date code boss on your starter pocket has "C 6 0" which indicates engine block was was cast on March 6, 1950. That would coincide with the soon to be transition from front to side mount in April.

TPD
 
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Lou F 1950 8N
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N Serial Number Question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-deanostoybox wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:45:10 08/20/19) " guess someone could have taken a used bare block and changed over all their stuff. Didn't know that was possible. Sounds like a lot of work"

Easier to change side mount engine to front mount distributor than going the other way.

One other thing comes to mind. There are date codes on front side of the axle trumpets. Mine has G261 (7-26-51) on the left trumpet and H21 (8-2-51) on the right. My hydraulic pump is dated 7-26-51. Cannot read the date code on the engine block as at some point in time it must have had a leaky battery. SN 8N409291 puts the engine in the 1951 range.


So I finally got tractor into garage and dis assembled the rear brakes/axles. There is an inner seal in both rear trumpets, although they don't really seam to fit that well. the bottom has a nice boss and a stop for the seal to seat on but at the top the seat just kind of dissapears. I checked the cast code on the lh trumpet and it is C12. Does this mean it is a 1952? if so I guess it should have the seals?

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