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need different fluid than 303 for 9n

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kennytractor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

See tips 3 and 4.

Ford now recommends UTF.

I use the UTF from TSC.
75 Tips

 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-kennytractor wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?


I don't think you have anything whatsoever to worry about leaving that oil in your low tech, low speed, low HP, low pressure hydraulics tractor.

A FAR bigger issue is to keep transdraulic clean and moisture-free.

LOTS AND LOTS of these old machines run around with what appears to be chocolate milkshake in their transmissions and hydraulic system, and STILL function!
 
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Richard G.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My local parts house sells old yellow metal safe 90 wt.
I think it is Warren or Coastal oil.
Works great in my 8N.
Richard in NW SC
 
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Tim PloughNman Daley
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

303 is the wrong stuff and junk IMHO. I buy in bulk at NAPA and Tsc sells a Traveler brand that is about the same. The only reason I used to go to TSC -they are cheaper, last time I bought two jugs and they were both different shades and consistency. I switched to NAPA years ago after that. The Ford MC134-D oil is no longer made/supplied by CNH.








Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-kennytractor wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?


Kenny have you added a wet clutch pack or inboard wet brakes to your N? Unless you have, the only reason to change to UTF is to give yourself a warm feeling.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-kennytractor wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?


Preferences vary greatly.

The original Ford recommendation was mild EP gear oil, grade SAE 80 for winter use and grade SAE 90 for summer use. For all practical purposes that type of product no longer exists in today's market.

It wasn't long before Ford changed that recommendation in favor of a newer universal tractor transmission (UTTF) type oil. The Ford specification for this oil was M2C-134D. This type of oil is sold today under a lot of brand names and prices vary greatly. Some pricey examples are UDT from Kubota and HyGard From John Deere. Many people choose to go with a less expensive generic product from the big box stores. TSC sells their Traveller Premium house brand UTTF in 5 gallon pails for around $35 and it is very popular. Similar products can be found at Walmart, NAPA, Costco, Sam's, Advance Auto, etc. Shop the sales for the best price.

Another option for N series tractors is a modern SAE 80W90 GL5 gear oil. Excellent all season gear lube but not as good a hydraulic fluid in cold weather as the UTTF. Also a bit pricey.

Any of these oils are higher quality and better transhydraulic fluids than the bottom of the barrel 303 products.

And if you are a big believer of oil myths you can use a plain mineral oil. This type of oil is sold as SAE 90 GL1 gear oil and lacks the EP additives that provide wear protection in spiral bevel final drives. API classifies it as suitable for use in manual transmissions and lightly loaded final drives. Never recommended by Ford and only used briefly by them during wartime rationing of EP gear oils.

TOH
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:19:53 10/09/19)
CVPost-kennytractor wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?


Kenny have you added a wet clutch pack or inboard wet brakes to your N? Unless you have, the only reason to change to UTF is to give yourself a warm feeling.


I would suggest that replacing a hydraulic oil that has a viscosity index of 60 or less with one that has a VI of 140+ gets you more than a warm feeling. The label on most 303 products is quite clear: "Not suitable for use at temperatures below freezing." If gellated it isnt even an effective gear oil.

TOH
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Reread Bob and Showcrop's posts.
And don't worry about this anymore.
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

" And don't worry about this anymore. "

Despite the fact that 303 is not suitable for use below 32*?
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm on a Model A Ford board where oil posts are prohibited. That's because they all follow the same pattern:

ANSWER: modern technology has provided superior products that will perform much better than what was used 90 years ago.

RESPONSE: I do not care what tests, experience, petroleum engineers or even common sense says, I will only use what was available when the tractor was new. Do not confuse me with facts.

It's like arguing religion or politics with some people.

Here is one article you might find interesting:

https://www.tractorlife.com/2018/06/19/perilously-obsolete-the-dangers-of-303-tractor-hydraulic-fluids/

There are plenty more articles re the benefits of UTF over common gear oil. Google is your friend.
75 Tips

 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:37:49 10/09/19)
CVPost-kennytractor wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:59:17 10/08/19) I think after reading about the problems with the 303 tractor fluid. I better drain it out of the old 9n. I'm not even sure what brand of 303 I used. What is everyone using in their N's for hydraulic fluid?


...

And if you are a big believer of oil myths you can use a plain mineral oil. This type of oil is sold as SAE 90 GL1 gear oil and lacks the EP additives that provide wear protection in spiral bevel final drives. API classifies it as suitable for use in manual transmissions and lightly loaded final drives. Never recommended by Ford and only used briefly by them during wartime rationing of EP gear oils.

TOH


Strike that part in red. I just refreshed my memory of the API service descriptions and they limit GL1 service to manual transmissions but exclude final drives. GL3 level performance is specified for spiral/bevel final drives operating at mild to moderate speeds and loads and GL5 for low speed/high torque applications.

TOH
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Bruce (VA) wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:03:24 10/09/19) I'm on a Model A Ford board where oil posts are prohibited. That's because they all follow the same pattern:

ANSWER: modern technology has provided superior products that will perform much better than what was used 90 years ago.

RESPONSE: I do not care what tests, experience, petroleum engineers or even common sense says, I will only use what was available when the tractor was new. Do not confuse me with facts.

It's like arguing religion or politics with some people.

Here is one article you might find interesting:

https://www.tractorlife.com/2018/06/19/perilously-obsolete-the-dangers-of-303-tractor-hydraulic-fluids/

There are plenty more articles re the benefits of UTF over common gear oil. Google is your friend.
75 Tips


I would wager you can fill the sumps of an N-series with 5 gallons of really nasty used engine oil and for most people it will run and operate fine for a very long time. Does not mean that is a good choice or that it does not harm the tractor vis-a-vis a proper lubricant. It's your tractor and what you put in it is your choice but it quite literally pays to understand the benefits and deficiencies of what you are using.

As for some of the worst of the 303 products, Smitty's and Rural King are about to get their day in court. If you have the patience to wade through the verbiage there are some interesting allegations as to the Missouri Department of Agriculture's tested results of their products starting on page 15 of the complaint:

Wurth vs. Smittys et. al.

IMO Super S and CAM2 303 really are deceptively marketed bottom of the barrel lubricants. My guess is they settle out of court for limited damages and agree to revise their labeling.

TOH
 
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Bruce (VA)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Some folks have no concept of long term wear. Or just don't care.

The assumption is that the tractor did not seize up and stop dead 10 minutes after adding that "line flush" oil, that all is good.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: need different fluid than 303 for 9n Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was thinking in terms of some of the stuff we've drained out of these things.
Half water, drain oil, bacon grease, lime Jello and a the drainings from a spitoon.
And they still lasted for 75 years.
 
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