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Water in Transmission

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DrLarryE
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:29 am    Post subject: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have an 8N and a 9N. The 9N needs it's transmission fluid changed every year or 2 because it gets water in it, but the 8N never gets water in it. The 9N has some welded cracks in the transmission case that leak a little. Is that probably the reason the 9N gets more water?

What is the best to use to rinse out the transmission when I change the fluid? I used kerosene last time because that is what I had, but I think someone suggested something else that would remove water better.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote



What is the relative use of the two. Using them heats them up and the moisture is driven off.
 
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Just curious, how long do you think you have to run the tractors at a moderate load to warm 6 gal of oil warm enough to drive off the
moisture?
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-HCooke wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:26:04 01/13/20) Just curious, how long do you think you have to run the tractors at a moderate load to warm 6 gal of oil warm enough to drive off the
moisture?



Well, the range of moderate is fairly broad and then the range of heat would be broadened by that much more. I have had the experience of transmissions of Ford tractors without decks getting very hot, to the extent that I can see the redness of the burn on my leg, so I would think that moisture would probably be driven off in 20 minutes or less under those conditions.
 
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Eman85
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How much water are we talking about? Is there a boot on the shift lever?
 
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John Deere D
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Purchased my first "N" 18 months ago...2-N..

It had not ran for 30 + years...
It belonged to the original family who had it stored in a shed ...

I disassembled as per pictures.....tuned up engine and it runs perfect!

With hydraulic cover removed......removed all drain plugs....at 6 O'clock position...then installed drain plugs

Added kerosene....inserted 1/4" diam tubing into oil filler port on Transmission...connected to air compressor...allowed air to boil kerosene for several minutes...
Then inserted tubing into cavity below Hyd lift cover...boiled kerosene for several minutes...

Removed all drain plugs and allowed "Crap" to drain out...

Preformed the above three times....

Removed PTO shaft and dropped hydraulic pump and housing down and off Tractor......

Placed Crown and DIFF assembly in a cut off drum....submerged in kerosene and added air to kerosene ...boiled kerosene for several minutes....

Removed left axel housing removed "Crap" as per pictures...Added a lite coating of grease to all axel bearing races

Assembled everything....added oil ...Tractor has ran perfectly every Sunday in June, July ,August, Sept, cutting grass in Cemetery..

15-40 oil to Engine.... Specific for a diesel engine....

80/90 oil to Trans, Hyd, Diff...

Bob...














 
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DrLarryE
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:42:09 01/13/20)

What is the relative use of the two. Using them heats them up and the moisture is driven off.


Neither one of them get nearly enough use to heat up enough to evaporate off the moisture. Both are stored out in the elements. The 9N has a new shifter boot and the 8N has an old raggedy one.

I'm not sure how much water is involved, but the fluid is foamy and 1 year it got slushy. Too much water.

As a side question, could the fluid be replaced and let the water settle off and reuse the old fluid?
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

DrLarryE wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:58:01 01/13/20)
showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:42:09 01/13/20)

What is the relative use of the two. Using them heats them up and the moisture is driven off.


Neither one of them get nearly enough use to heat up enough to evaporate off the moisture. Both are stored out in the elements. The 9N has a new shifter boot and the 8N has an old raggedy one.

I'm not sure how much water is involved, but the fluid is foamy and 1 year it got slushy. Too much water.

As a side question, could the fluid be replaced and let the water settle off and reuse the old fluid?



Generally speaking water doesn't mix well with older type oils. The oil will rise above the oil. Newer oils with additives tend to absorb the moisture and hold onto it so that it is not likely to separate.
 
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Caryc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Eman85 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:07:36 01/13/20) How much water are we talking about? Is there a boot on the shift lever?


Here's a good idea how to protect those gear shift boots from the sun and weather.

These are on my MF202 but my 8N also has one on it's shift lever.

You can get what you need to make them at the plumbing isle in Home Depot. Just slip them on when not using the tractor.


 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Caryc wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:09:06 01/13/20)
Eman85 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:07:36 01/13/20) How much water are we talking about? Is there a boot on the shift lever?


Here's a good idea how to protect those gear shift boots from the sun and weather.

These are on my MF202 but my 8N also has one on it's shift lever.

You can get what you need to make them at the plumbing isle in Home Depot. Just slip them on when not using the tractor.




And then when you keep getting the water you know that it is condensation, LOL.
 
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Caryc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:17:54 01/13/20)
Caryc wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:09:06 01/13/20)
Eman85 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:07:36 01/13/20) How much water are we talking about? Is there a boot on the shift lever?


Here's a good idea how to protect those gear shift boots from the sun and weather.

These are on my MF202 but my 8N also has one on it's shift lever.

You can get what you need to make them at the plumbing isle in Home Depot. Just slip them on when not using the tractor.




And then when you keep getting the water you know that it is condensation, LOL.


The purpose of these covers is to protect the rubber boots from the weather and sun rot on tractors that remain outside.

I don't care if you use them or not.
 
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DMartin9N-2N
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good evening: I don't think the shift lever boot is the main problem letting water get in. Look at the plunger where the top link's movement is transmitted to the hydraulic system. There is a large coil spring with a rod inside it, the rod goes through a hole into the hydraulic enclosure. Since the rod and so forth are on the top of the tractor, water can get in that way. Others will chime in and say right or wrong....

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree with you Dennis. John Smith, of "old ford tractor dot com"
fame actually did a test on them to prove that same theory.
I wish I could find it now.
While condensation is an issue, the amount of water Dr Larry is talking
about is likely getting in through the upper 3 pt spring/rod opening.

The cleaning method I remember I'm pretty sure was posted by
SoundGuy and involved a mixture of diesel or kerosene and
isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol to help remove the water.
 
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DrLarryE
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Back to one of the original questions, does anyone have any theories why one gets so much more water than the other? Both have good shift boots (which is probably irrelevant). Both are stored the same and the one with less/no water get the least amount of use. The only difference is the cracks. I'm guessing this is just "one of those things"
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Water in Transmission Reply to specific post Reply with quote

DMartin9N-2N wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:51:29 01/13/20) Good evening: I don't think the shift lever boot is the main problem letting water get in. Look at the plunger where the top link's movement is transmitted to the hydraulic system. There is a large coil spring with a rod inside it, the rod goes through a hole into the hydraulic enclosure. Since the rod and so forth are on the top of the tractor, water can get in that way. Others will chime in and say right or wrong....

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.


Dennis, while it is certainly possible for water to get in past the felt seal. I see it as being nowhere near as likely as condensation. The felt seal will catch the water and it will dribble down through the felt and then run back out.
 
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