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Old backhoe engine identification?


 
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:59 am    Post subject: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I recently purchased an old Case backhoe. Based on a picture I put on this forum I was told it was a W3. It has a model 42 loader (the only original tag left that I can find). I?m trying to positively ID the engine as google searches suggest the W3 originally had a g188 gas engine. Is there any definitive way to tell it apart from the g159? It appears so re-engineering has been done as the front loader mounts don?t line up. Many thanks, Sam
 
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Case Nutty 1660
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

post a few pics of the machine easy to tell if its a W-3 they had a 188 dsl or a 159 gas engine Not a 188 gas engine
 
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Will try and post some pics later. Will be very glad if it?s a 159. I?m also looking for some direction as to what the gear levers are. I have the 4 speed figured out, and I?m thinking the lever to the right of the steering wheel is torque convertor lockup, and the ones on the right and left of the transmission should be a high low and forward reverse. Thanks, Sam
 
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Also what should a 159 have for oil pressure? Thanks.
 
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Case Nutty 1660
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Post pics of the loader mounts that have been changed also were they added to or made shorter? It could have had a 188 Gas bolted in but the block is longer than a 159,, a 148 engine will be shorter, and maybe yours has a 159 installed when it came with a 188 dsl as the dsl block is also longer than the 159 is I grabbed these shots form a 570 ops,, but the controls are the same as a W-3 has hope these help answer some of your questions,, the dash on yours will be different though
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Will get the pics this afternoon. Those shots from the manual are exactly what I need. Many thanks. Sam
 
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hopefully the pictures will be attached to this post, if not they're under the "Help Identify" photo list. The front mounts on the bolster have two bolt holes in the top, and the bracket welded to the loader has two holes, but the rear hole in the loader lines up with the front hole in the bolster bracket so I'd say the current engine is about 2" shorter than the original.

After having it running I have some leaks (and other issues) from the backhoe control valve which should be straight forward. I also have an engine oil leak from below the generator mounting bracket where I assume the power steering pump originally mounted and is now open (there is a belt drive pump for the power steering on the front left now. I also don't have much in the way of oil pressure, maybe 10 psi hot. Also it won't go into gear without considerable grinding. Lots of things to work on :)

Thanks, Sam




 
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Case Nutty 1660
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You have a Case-O-Matic transmission,, no real "clutch" as you may be used to but a convertor drive,, the shuttle lever has three positions,, FWD-N-REV always use this lever to get "N" and only shift the 4 speed or high/low range lever with this in the "N" positions, this will stop your gear grinding,, the shuttle has synco's in it to allow it to shift with little or no grinding if you apply a light pressure on it with clutch pedal down and engine at idle. where you have a shorter engine I am betting the current gas engine in it was swapped in for a bad 188 dsl engine. sounds like your measurements say it is a 159 now,, it is indeed a W-3 as only they used that type self-leveling linkage. on the shifting there is a check to be made to make sure the linkage from the pedal to the control valve is set correctly so that the spool goes fully into each detente more on that later when you get ready for that info
 
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Many thanks, I tried several variants of shifting it but none were really successful. I did try the high/low range and both seem to work, also just used second gear as I had too big a battery in it. I did try shifting the shuttle from neutral but it still ground pretty badly. I gather engine RPM is pretty critical and it isn't running too well so I think I'll see what I can do about that first. Are there any simple tricks to boost oil pressure in these (I'm going to confirm with a better gauge) for the time being? I know an overhaul is in it's future but I'm trying to postpone that at the moment. Also there seems to be some debate about ATF (dex 3?) vs Hytran for the convertor, any thoughts? Thanks, Sam
 
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Case Nutty 1660
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

depending on what engine is in it it can run lower oil psi and be fine,, a 148 runs in 12-18 psi range,, as for shifting put the shuttle in "N" before shifting any other shifter the 4 speed or range,, this stops the trans shafts turning, if it grinds when you shift the shuttle someone has taken out the syncros myself I use only Hy-Tran in every thing I own,, atf will work fine also, some claim it drags the gears less, either will lube the system fine, you can pull the oil pan and remove the oil pump and do a tear down inspection,, I have seen a few things cause low oil psi there, broken spring,, worn gears ect,, I would also test it with a known correct low psi gauge to make sure yorus is not giving a false reading like you said,
 
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tractorsam
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Perfect, thank you. I use hytran in other stuff as well as most of my gear is IH and I have a newer Kioti hydrostat I run Hytran in. I assume the 4 speed and rear end is 90wt? What is parts available like for the syncro?s etc? Any hope? I see many projects ahead with this machine. Many thanks for your assistance. Sam
 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Old backhoe engine identification? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yes rear axcle/transmission gears are 80-90wt,, yes the syncros are available not cheap but can be bought I have found many are worn on the fwd side and not the rev side so I just use the rev ones to do the initial shift
 
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