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Impossible to find #1 cyl leak


 
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I posted a few times on this and unable to resolve. I did my own test on head and would not bubble. After several times with head off/on always leaking into coolant on #1. There is a hairline crack in sleeve where flange is so I'm not sure if that's culprit.i bought snake camera but won't fit in hole. Is there any way I can view inside cyl. Because it prably has a drip of antifreeze coming in.

 
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

450 diesel
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Replace the aluminum with acrylic plastic. But the crack is very likely your problem. One way to "see" if the crack is it. Put a bandaid over the crack so the absorbent pad is touching it. Put pressure on it and then look to see Coolant on the pad. Jim
 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did you try the plexiglass and a vacuum on number 1 cylinder piston and sleeve with the head off as I suggested in one of your earlier posts? See link. I am suggesting the coolant level be brought up nearly to the top of the block to see if the vacuum pulls it inside the cylinder. If you say you see a visible hairline crack somewhere around that number one sleeve you have likely found your issue. Maybe you could buy a chunk of clear hose that you could adapt to you vacuum and see if you can pull the coolant through the suspect area. This would probably require getting a good seal on the area and then turning on the vac. Hope this helps, I think you?re about down to pulling that piston and sleeve out to investigate.
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:02 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it is the hairline crack in sleeve doesn't it seem unlikely it would get past parent bore? My next bright idea is to try to see if there anyway to get 5/16" snake camera thru one of the valves. Wonder if it's possible to intentionally have a valve fall completely in
 
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:05 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well I did also bolt the alum plate over #1 on block and filled to top (even let air out of front tires to level) and then cranked over with crank but didn't hear anything
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you have a cracked sleeve, the fact is that it must be replaced. That sleeve is already moving in the block when it cracked. It will eventually break all around and get sucked into the crankcase-- not good--. When pulled you will see the path that coolant has taken. WHo knows what evil lerks behind the sleeve in the parent bore.
on your other question: if you put the piston at tdc, and if you make sure the engine cannot be rotated, you can take the keeper and retainer off of a valve, and twist a soft wire around the keeper groove, to keep it from falling in. Jim
 
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the tractor vet
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Let me put it to you this way , IF the sleeve is cracked then the BLOCK IS CRACKED behind the sleeve . Now over the years of working on them usually what i find is they NORMALLY crack between 2 and 3 and the cracks run up and down . If yours is cracked around the top this will be a first for me . To repair just swapping out the sleeve will not solve the problem to fix it you will have to have the block bored and a thick wall repair sleeve will need to be pressed in then bored to fit a new sleeve in . I have been around these engines for a long time and know a lot about them . The big thing with them is proper operation from starting to shut down and never getting them HOT . When starting you don't rush it as you allow the engine to warm before making the switch , You Never go anywhere with and EMPTY starting tank nd you can work the snot out of it all day long , but when the end of the day comes don't be in a hurry to just shut her down and walk away . Allow it to ideal till the temp gauge is all the way down on the COLD side and on a warm day this can take 15 to 20 min. of ideal time . Then you shut it down on the diesel side NEVER switch back to the gas side as when you do the combustion area heats back up and after shutdown that heat keeps on building then drops fast with no coolant moving .
 
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

On the #1 cyl the parent bore was already repaired (double sleeved) before I got it. I think the reason the sleeve cracked is the repaired parent bore has too much of a chamfer and that's why it has hairline crack. I did some engineering and drilled and tapped a 5/16" bolt underneath crankcase and put bolt in with washer and locktite to prevent sleeve from being sucked in. I find it hard to believe so much compression could be leaking through hairline crack when it's pressed tight together and then have to get through another crack (if there is one) in parent bore to be easily leaking into coolant. It barely even has enough compression to hit. Also the flange height is correct .002 above
 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I want the valve to fall in so I might have a chance to get inspection camera in. Not sure if valve is too long to fall in?
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You keep telling us more as we plod through this. In my opinion, and the Vet's just take it apart. If it doesn't run on #1 most of the time, and the head is good (as you stated) there is very good reason to take #1 piston and sleeve out! Who knows what the repair sleeve looks like? Who put it in? The patient is running on 3 it is beyond diagnosis. Not a flame, I understand the time you have put in, and reluctance to take it apart, but a cracked sleeve will not do. Jim
 
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for your input. I know I am going to take it apart again but the main thing I'm after is trying to pinpoint the leak with it together. Ive taken it apart so many times and it's the same thing every time I put it back together. (I tried a couple sleeves and it has new rings)
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Impossible to find #1 cyl leak Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You might find the repair sleeve to be improperly installed. If it is even slightly loose at the top especially, there will be a leak between the coolant where the block was cracked, and the repair sleeve. Putting dark food coloring in the sample water you are using in the block, and using a vacuum pump (real, not a shop vac) to pull even 1/2 atmosphere on the top of the closed system you have installed should show the leak. If it is loosing compression enough to not run on #1, it is bad enough to show. Jim
 
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