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Central air question

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Scott 730
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's well known here that Geo thinks heat pumps are the spawn of the devil. We've heard it over and over and over................

Yes they are not for everyone, but "here' I will replace mine with another if and when it craps out. "Here" my HP is metered at about 50% of the standard kilowatt rate. I don't expect it to be efficient in very cold weather, that's what the LP furnace is for. The 50% AC bill is the summer is why I really have it.
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Run into such at work a lot . Women are complaining the AC is not working in the offices . First thing I do it take the loudest
Complainer and show her all the baseboard and portable heaters that are still turned up to Max from last winter and forgotten about .
 
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kencombs
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In addition to my current little unit experience, mentioned in my earlier post, I have had a couple of other units. One from 74-77, and later another home with two, eupstairs and one downstairs from 80-98. All worked well, except for an installer screw up ruining the reversing valve overheating it when brazing the lines on. The first one had resistance heat backup. The second pair used propane furnaces.

They don't 'feel' warm, but heat the house by moving lots of warm air instead of a little hot air like a fuel furnace. Very comfortable as long as you don't expect to stand over a register to warm up.

Current models will provide 3 times as much heat per kilowatt as resistance heat. But, they have moving parts and don't last forever. My experience is in OK, which had much milder winters than IN, Il, MN etc.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ken They don't 'feel' warm, but heat the house by moving lots of warm air instead of a little hot air like a fuel furnace. Very comfortable as long as you don't expect to stand over a register to warm up.

AMEN to that my friend exactly what I meant in my post when I said Heat pump heat is cold heat lol HOWEVER I just use mine when its above 45 degrees as they are more efficient there versus when its real coldddddddddddd brrrrrrrrrrrr and my High Efficiency Natural Gas takes over. Im sooooooo glad I don't have to resort to straight resistance emergency backup heat then as the bearings in my meter would start smoking lol

Take care yall KEEP WARM the best you can

John T
 
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Geo-TH,In
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I haven't had to replace anything on my electric baseboard in 20 years. They will
last me a lifetime.

Heat pumps have an average 15-year lifespan.

When you need a heat pump the most, they don't work.

heat pumps start to lose efficiency at around 40 degrees F and become less efficient
than furnaces at around 25 degrees F. Heat pumps continue to be effective at cooling
the indoors, even at high temperatures. In the South, it rarely gets below 25
degrees.

Last winter I had over 3 weeks of below freezing temps and night got close to zero or
below.

U.S. Department of Energys Climate Zone Map), a heat pump might be a good choice,
but if youre in zones 4 through 7, a furnace will probably be your best bet.

I think Larry needs to consider what zone he lives in.

Heat pumps need a backup heat source. Most people have electric backup, resistive
heat, just like mine.

A geo heat pump will work all the time, ground temps are around 55. What's the
lifespan of a geo??? How problematic are leaks in the ground loop? What's the cost
of a geo?

I used to repair AC and furnaces. Furnaces only break down when you need them the
most on the coldest night, weekends, holidays, you are in Florida in the winter. Many
times you will be without heat for days before repairman gets there. Sometimes longer
before he gets parts. AC same way.

My central is 2.5 ton 20 years old Rudd seer 12, R22, which was the best I could get
back then. It cost me $20 to replace the compressor contactor.

My last central was over 30 years old. Heat pump put more house on the compressor,
shortens lifespan.

Do the math, I can't see enough savings enough to consider a heat pump where I live.

I believe in low tech insulation, good windows, good doors.

25,000 brick 4# per brick, plus motor is over 100,000# of thermal mass. That's the
same as 50,000 pounds of water. A lot of thermal mass. The brick take a long time to
cool off and a long time to heat up. If it 60 at night and 80 in the day, my house
stays at 70 without the AC.

I've lived in this house for 44 years. Duke offered me a deal. $158/mo for 12 months.
Last years annual electric bill $1896. This year $157/mo. $1884.

What did your heap pump cost?
Prorate the replacement cost of your heat pump over it's estimated lifetime. Add in
your repair bills. Some people also get a service contract, add that in too.

So How much is your annual electric bill and annual estimates for replacement/repair
cost?

It's your money. It your choice.

Geo.
 
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kencombs
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yep, no matter how you get there, insulation, equipment, thermal mass etc, the real issue is (cost per KWH*KWHs used).

Without knowing those things it is impossible to compare any of the other contributors.

BTW, Have you calculated the cost at today's prices for 25000 bricks installed? Might make mini splits look downright cheap.

I've got brick and rock also, but I doubt that I would install them if building new. Just too pricy.
 
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Geo-TH,In
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Like JohnT said, HP are cold heat source.
If your inside temp is 65, you will be lucky to get 90 degree discharge.
Add in wind chill, that's cold heat.

Would you recommend Heat pumps?
geo.
 
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kencombs
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, that is why a lot of folks with heat pump installations, especially retrofits, are not happy. Duct work undersized 'cause they reused the fuel furnace ducts
 
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Geo-TH,In
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

30 years ago brick were $0.24 delivered. No one paid me to put the brick on my house. No one paid me to double the size of my house.

Bottom line. What's your annual electric bill?
cost of heat pump? repair bills, service contract?
What's the size of your house?
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Geo-TH,In wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:51:36 04/07/21) 30 years ago brick were $0.24 delivered. No one paid me to put the brick on my house. No one paid me to double the size of my house.

Bottom line. What's your annual electric bill?
cost of heat pump? repair bills, service contract?
What's the size of your house?



Geo, I don't think that you are very close to "bottom line". Perhaps you could get closer if you went back and read Larry's OP again.
 
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Geo-TH,In
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop
Larry's post:

He mentioned heat pump is 1000 more

What is good about heat pump,?

Perhaps you could get closer if you went back and read my first post again.

No on heatpump.
No on ductwork in attic.

I still standby that post.
George
 
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cushman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When we had our house built in 1997,we chose heat pump due to no gas being available on our farm.We live in north east Ohio.When our system started leaking freon last year,it cost us $6700 to replace it giving a cost of $24 per month.It is true we do not have high tempurature heat coming from the ducts,but it has no trouble keeping the house comfortable.Our electric bill in the summer is about $80,and the highest in the winter gets close to $200.This is in a 1700 square foot house with electricity at 0.112 per KWH.
 
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sotxbill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote



correctly designed ducts and registers... what chill????You continuously quote a pist poor designed system. And since the units go to low fan speed in the heat mode, no matter the source.

IN.... a correctly insulated house with a correctly sized and designed system, non of those problems exist. There is NO cold/hot air as the house is at 74 +- degrees year around.

In you keep in at 60 degrees in the winter, then yes, the air will fill cold. There will be NO magic warm spot to go stand in front of. But then why would you expect that unless you have a poorly designed system where are the heat/cooling come out of one source/duct and everywhere else is off temp...Modern duct work removes chills and registers keep the air dispersed evenly.

And in most RV's in winter, they are poorly insulated and ceiling heat from the two roof units is not enough.. the upper half of the rv is warm, and the floor is cold.. very cold... where the propane heat from the floor vents would displace that. very luxurious....... but again... poor design in RV's and unless you have a pony bottle of propane, your 30 gal tank might make a week or two at best. Due to weight, most rv's dont have double pane windows or much insulation....So your main source is usually electricity only... saving propane for cooking and water heating on our motor coach.

Very High efficiency HP's with very high seers are common in the south and save a lot of money. variable speed fans inside and out, variable displacement compressors mean the $$$$s are kept low. However the ductless units can be better in their inverter technology for seasonal cooling and heating on the moderate days. Our hp saves us around $50 to $150 a month currently AND we only have around two moderate months a year.

Correct questions are... How many heating/cooling days above 30 degrees vrs below 30 degrees? How are you insulated? Do you have natural gas? Cost per kw? Cost of other sources? etc design of a dual source system?? use floor strips as a back up since they are all over the dump and are free? Is your power stable or do you lose it often?
 
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buickanddeere
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-larry@stinescorner wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:56:31 04/06/21) Got a quote for our cottage,,its 970 sq ft

To put plywood ,air handler,,vents in attic,and carrier unit outside,,7,900 dollars

He mentioned heat pump is 1000 more

What is good about heat pump,??,I know nothing about them

We currently have a good oil heat furnace with hot water baseboard system

Any advice,,opinions etc,,will be appreciated ,,


Thanks in advance


Since we were already installing a new gas furnace and adding central air . We decided to go the rest of the way and made it a heat pump .
The HP warms the house for a few weeks in the spring and fall.
 
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jacksun65
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Central air question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I put in 24,000 but mini split heat pump two years ago still going strong. My house is 2200 square ft and in Ky it heats and cools the house ok. In the opposite end of the house it gets a little hot in the summer. The electric bill has gone down over central heat and air.
 
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