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WIRING CORRECT?


 
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Cariboo4x4
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:46 am    Post subject: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey everyone. I'm helping my neighbour wire this box to his 240 volt motor for his air compressor. He had it wired so it would turn really slow and the starting capacitor he said was heating up. You could smell it and see smoke coming off capacitor terminals.

I used my volt meter and wired it up like you see in photos. I however not sure how pressure switch should be wired correctly. I'm thinking the white wire should be hooked to D instead of E. The way its wired up now motor only turns very slowly with me spinning big pulley on compressor. I think his starting capacitor is shot and wires need to be changed on pressure circuit.

I've done a lot of wiring over the years and 100% sure white wire goes to D instead of E. I'm not 100% sure of wires white and black going to A and B.

Neutral wire coming from breaker panel is not used because only the two hot wires red and black, and ground go to motor.







 
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wore out
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It looks to me like you are using a mechanical motor protector and are jumpering the pressure switch across the heater that is supposed to be sized to the current draw of the motor and is part of the mechanism that shuts down a motor if it's drawing too much current.

If it is as it appears to me the pressure switch will have no control of the motor. NOT a good thing on an air compressor!!!!!

To do what you guys are trying to do you need an electromagnetic motor starter/overload protector.

Or, correct me if I'm wrong, IS that an electromagnetic contactor?


All that being said, besides all that's wrong on the control side IF 240 Volts IS being fed to the motor and it's acting as you describe either the wiring is messed up in the motor junction box, there's a bad start and/or run capacitor, the centrifugal start switch or it's actuating mechanism is bad, or the motor has something wrong with the windings.


PLEASE don't continue to try to run this thing until you are SURE of what contactor/overload protector/starter you are dealing with and that it can stop the motor under control of the pressure switch.

Also (as with any compressor) check that the safety valve is present, appropriate for the tank working pressure and not stuck.
 
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Steve@Advance
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No, nothing right about that!

That is a manual starter with an overload heater.

It can not be controlled with a pressure switch.

You have 2 choices, control the motor directly with the pressure switch IF it can handle the amp load.

Or find a magnetic starter and wire the pressure switch to control the magnet coil.

Sounds like the motor may have a bad start cap, or has been damaged from too much starting load. A defective unloader will cause hard starting.

Need more details, has it ever worked? What size motor? What size compressor? RPM? Voltage?
 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is there a schematic inside the lid of the push button motor controller? For me to help you that is what I would need.
Maybe some sparky who has wired a hundred of these will come along and direct you properly from memory. It looks like
A and B must have something to do with energizing the contactor coil.
 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Steve or woreout, so when the controller is use for its intended purpose if there is an overload the A and B terminals
become energized to heat a thermal trip switch to disconnect power to the motor? And my wording should have said ..it looks like you are assuming A and B are energizing the contactor coil..
 
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Cariboo4x4
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-used red MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:24:39 05/06/21) Steve or woreout, so when the controller is use for its intended purpose if there is an overload the A and B terminals
become energized to heat a thermal trip switch to disconnect power to the motor? And my wording should have said ..it looks like you are assuming A and B are energizing the contactor coil..


Thank you very much for all the replies. Ill advise my neighbour to have a sparky or electrician look at it. Sounds like you fellows are saying previous owner may have used incorrect box to control pressure switch? Unfortunately neighbour bought it not hooked up and he replaced the blackwhite wires, because old ones were frayed. I didnt see it when he bought it or what he did before I showed up. Im into taking photos to ensure it gets hooked up right. Unfortunately he didnt take any photos even though he is 84 and has a really new cell phone. Ill advise him to hire his qualified electrician friend to ensure he doesnt throw money away on it. Ill read your replies more in the meantime and try to learn more.
 
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Steve@Advance
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is no magnetic coil in that starter, it's all mechanical.

The current flows through the heater element. As long as the current is at or below the FLA of the motor (the heater element is sized accordingly), the contacts stay closed.

If the current is exceeded, the element overheats, trips a mechanical latch, and lets the contacts open.

Once cooled, the contacts can be reset and closed by the start button.

It's old school technology now, nearly all single phase motors have a thermal overload protection built in. But they are still a good heavy duty start/stop switch.
 
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Hdonly
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is a three phase start-stop switch although it will work fine for single phase 240 volts. Here i how I think it should be wired.

 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Steve, thanks for the good explanation!
 
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Cariboo4x4
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hdonly wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:08:36 05/06/21) That is a three phase start-stop switch although it will work fine for single phase 240 volts. Here i how I think it should be wired.


Thank you. Much appreciated.
 
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Hdonly
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Curious did you ever get the compressor wired up and running?
 
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Cariboo4x4
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: WIRING CORRECT? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hdonly wrote:
(quoted from post at 06:01:12 05/13/21) Curious did you ever get the compressor wired up and running?


The drawn image posted earlier I realized was for 120 volt power supply. This unit is 240. I told my buddy to hire an electrician because I was confused on how to wire up pressure switch. Also the box bolted to motor with the two capacitors in it had lots of wires with automotive electrical tape on connections. I was skeptical of how last owner wired it and when buddy bought it he didnt take notebof where the two hots, and neutral wire were connected. I would have taken a photo. Possibly Ill get some photos after electrician looks at it.
 
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