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384 remote addition


 
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OldRedSteel
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:03 pm    Post subject: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Greetings, this is my first post! I've been searching the net for awhile, and I might have found the answer here, but I need a bit of confirmation. I'd like to add remotes to my 384, which already exist, but it seems to be using the old system, that is, I can use the 3PH or the remotes, but not at the same time. I need to use them both without having to switch over. So, from what I gather, I THINK that I can just put in a 4 way, 3 position valve on the pipe that goes from the pump to that front plate under the seat. Is this correct? I believe that it has to be an open center valve, but can I use a tandem? From what I've read, a true open centre valve won't hold in centre position, but apparently, most "centre valves" are actually tandem valves, is that true? I want the cylinder to hold position under load at centre lever position. I'll try to find a valve that matches the flow (7.8 GPM) and the pressure (2500 psi) best that I can. Am I missing anything? Thanks very much!



 
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JimB2
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, IH actually sold a single or dual remote valves that had levers coming from under the seat, see attached photo of a dual remote setup that does not depend on the 3pt lever.
You may find one at a salvage yard, are you in USA or Canada.
Re, Hydraulic PSI for 384 should be 1500 to 2000 PSI maximum.
I will post again on how to connect a dual remote using a remotes valves from a loader.


 
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JimB2
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi again, do you require Single(only lift UP) one hydraulic line to the hydraulic cylinder or Dual(Lift Up and Push Down) two hydraulic lines to the hydraulic cylinder, valves?
You are correct the valves must be OPEN Center, which means when the valves are in the neutral position the hydraulic oil flows in a continuous loop, from the reservoir thru the pump thru the valves and back to the reservoir.
Open center valves will hold a load when in the neutral position.

With reference to the attached photo IH-B414-Loader-Con as how to connect your existing hydraulic lines:
The current high pressure hydraulic hose from the pump that connects at the front of the seat will go to #16 on the diagram.
A new high pressure hydraulic hose will be required to connect to #9 on the diagram to where the hydraulic hose from the pump was connected at the front of the seat.
Some loader valves have a third hydraulic line like #21 on the diagram and this is a low pressure return line that can be connected into the fill plug in the hydraulic reservoir behind the seat,
this line just allows a loader to operate faster.

Reference attached 444-Loader-Conn-V4 photo below:
The BLUE line is the high pressure line from the pump going to the "IN Port" of the hydraulic valves, the BLACK line is the "OUT Port" of the valves going to where the High pressure hose used to connect at the front of the seat.
The RED circle is the Relief valve for the valves and is REQUIRED.
Notes:
This set of hydraulic valves does not have a third low pressure dump line.
For any reason these valves are removes the Blue line hose and the Black line hose must be connected together or the pump will be Dead Headed causing severe damage as there is no relief valve in the circuit.

Hope this helps
JimB






 
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OldRedSteel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you! I think I've seen your post before, but I think that I just didn't really understand it. Still new to hydraulics. I grew up around them on a farm, but I was just using them, never any designing experience. To answer your question, yes, I'd like to be able to use it on a double acting cylinder and have it hold position when the lever is on centre. As I see it, I'll need a 4 port, 3 position open centre valve. I'll have to make sure that it has a relief valve on it, and make sure that it's set for 2000 psi.
 
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JimB2
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, some of the loader valves had a "Float" position for the boom.
When we had a 384 with a 1550 loader on it, the boom had a float position, you pushed the lever all the way forward and it would latch and the boom could float up and down with the ground.
 
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OldRedSteel
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Jimb, I've hooked up the control valves, and this seems to be what is happening: I tried to put the return line on the larger "power return" port ( I guess that what it is), and although I could raise the arms, they wouldn't lower without back pressure in the controller. So I put the return line on the other return port, and plugged the larger port. Now the cylinders go both ways just fine, but there seems to be some back pressure, as the tractor bogs down if the bypass valve is tightened up a little to keep it from screaming. So it seems the controller is letting oil go through it, but just not enough. I'm wondering if this controller is rated for a lower fluid flow rate. Perhaps I should get another hose and run it from that other return port to one of the fill plugs behind the seat as you mentioned? When I got this controller, neither of the return ports were plugged, so perhaps thats what the previous owner did too. Either that or buy a new controller with a higher flow rating. Thanks!
 
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JimB2
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 384 remote addition Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OldRedSteel wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:54:15 05/04/21) Hi Jimb, I've hooked up the control valves, and this seems to be what is happening: I tried to put the return line on the larger "power return" port ( I guess that what it is), and although I could raise the arms, they wouldn't lower without back pressure in the controller. So I put the return line on the other return port, and plugged the larger port. Now the cylinders go both ways just fine, but there seems to be some back pressure, as the tractor bogs down if the bypass valve is tightened up a little to keep it from screaming. So it seems the controller is letting oil go through it, but just not enough. I'm wondering if this controller is rated for a lower fluid flow rate. Perhaps I should get another hose and run it from that other return port to one of the fill plugs behind the seat as you mentioned? When I got this controller, neither of the return ports were plugged, so perhaps thats what the previous owner did too. Either that or buy a new controller with a higher flow rating. Thanks!


Hi, somehow my reply became detached from the original post.


Hi could you please post some pictures of the loader control valve and the hydraulic connections to the tractor?
Is the loader control valve an Open Center valve or did it come off a JD or newer tractor with Closed Center hydraulics?

JimB
 
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