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Case 450D Starts but will not move.

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Doug5
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I bought my 450 in 1994 and was many times down to Western on West Valley for parts. The place is still there but is called Sonsray. I called into the repair desk a few days ago and talked to someone. The guy was not aware that Case still had TCH oil. He did not seem very helpful. I think that the climate there may have changed since you were there. I do have a parts and Service manual. Don't seem to be able to find the relief valves that AJ talks about. I'll keep working on the problem, and probably will have to have a Case mechanic from Sonsray come out, if they do field service. I sure do thank you guys for sticking with me in trying to solve the issue. If you were in town, I'd take you out to lunch. Doug
 
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tomtinker
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the oil rings on the ends of the transmission shafts are worn out the transmission can try to run in two gears at once. This usually happens slowly over time, unless one breaks up for some reason.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes I'm in the UK, London, spent 55 years as a freelance mechanic repairing anything made, my own pump is not to good resulting in bad tracking. Where the drive shaft is connected to the torque there is a square block, on the underside of the block is the two valves under two plugs, the valve on the left is the pressure regulator and the one on the right is the torque relief pressure, drain the oil from the transmission by removing the line coming from the housing that goes to the suction strainer, take the lowest line off the bottom of the torque, you will not get all the oil out but most of it, fill in the new oil, why I asked about where the two gallons of torque oil went was as the charge pump is close coupled to the engine it is possible that oil could leaked into the engine, with you mentioning the track been off and you hearing a noise like something letting go is misleading, if you have a hydraulic shop in the area take the pump to them to see if they can test it/repair it or.
AJ
 
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Doug5
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ you're a smart dude. I felt under the block and found two, 1 inch or so caps. I then was able to find them in my parts book. Can they be removed from above or do I have to drop the converter pan and get to them from below? Same with the bottom hose on converter? Should I have new copper washers for the seal on the relief valves? What am I looking for that is bad on the relief valves? Gummed up, broken springs, worn or pitted pistons?

I am seeing that the front of the trans. is wet. Leaking shaft seal may be a location of at least some of the oil loss. If it is, can the seal be replaced in place and without special tools?
Thanks! Doug
 
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Doug5
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dennis, what do you mean by pressure regulators and where are they?
 
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Dennis K (WA)
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Doug5 wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:22:34 05/08/21) Dennis, what do you mean by pressure regulators and where are they?


Doug, same parts AJ is describing.

Case may have discontinued TCH and using Hi-Trans now.
When you were into Western Power in 1994 I was probably in the shop office with a phone glued to the side of my head. Don't know if any one I knew are still there. Been a while.
Dennis
 
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Doug5
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have not done the drain and fill or check the relief valves yet. I need a larger socket than I have, so will have to track one down.

Checked for leaks with WD40 and saw no evidence of leaking. However, I found that the rubber coupler between trans and pipe to transmission cooler was loose so that it was easy to rotate. There was also what looked like fresh oil under it. When machine is running I see no leaks, but it looks like I am down a gallon or more on trans dip stick. Is there any way for trans oil to be sucked into engine and burned? If I see no visible oil leaks, where else can oil be going? Can the loose rubber connector cause any of the problems I am having?

Started dozer and tracked it 200 feet to a dryer location, out of the mud to work on. After it sat running for awhile, it would not move.

Dennis, I stopped at "Western" the other day. I dropped your name and a mechanic Rob and the service manager, Jamie remembered you.
 
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Dennis K (WA)
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dennis, I stopped at "Western" the other day. I dropped your name and a mechanic Rob and the service manager, Jamie remembered you.[/quote]

Hope it was a positive discussion. Good luck with your project
Dennis
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Why not take the pump off and let the dealer have a look at it.
AJ
 
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Doug5
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I was in at the Case Dealer, I asked the service manager if they could look at and bench test the pump and they said no. They said that it had to be hooked up and tested on the machine in order to do a flow test.

When AJ pointed out the the pump was close coupled to the engine, it got me thinking. I was a gallon short in the transmission again, with it just sitting and idling. I can see no leaks of that amount under dozer. So, I thought, if it is not leaking onto the ground, where is it going. If the charge pump connection point to the engine is the only common point, then it must be loosing it there. That would mean the seal is bad at the pump, and loosing pressure there. Maybe other internal parts are also bad in the pump. Am I correct in these thoughts???

I have been trying to track down a pump, but so far everyone is saying it is not made anymore and out of stock.

Thanks so much guys for all your help.
 
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tomtinker
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Case 450D Starts but will not move. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check your engine dipstick to see if the fluid is going into the engine.
 
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