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1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged


 
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Jeff Kinnett
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This message is a reply to an archived post by Jeff Kinnett on January 22, 2013 at 13:33:10.
The original subject was "1953 Allis Chalmers WD 45 PTO gearbox".

update since the January 23rd, finally got into working on my 1953 WD4, stuon, had adviced me to check the intermediate gear, it was damaged all the teeth for missing of the small gear. I ordered new intermediate gear and a form of the Internet instructed me this instruction:
Tractor does not need split, remove the PTO gearbox and the hydraulic pump, remove set screw from shaft, move intermediate gear and shaft forward in the hydraulic chamber
Tried, but shaft, gear will not budge, any info appreciated.
 
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Jim Danforth
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Try calling the folks you ordered the gear from.
 
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Will Herring
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have a picture you can post of the assembly you're having trouble with?
 
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Jeff Kinnett
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello, I got 2 photos, also this morning using very long screwdriver and some liquid wrench on intermediate shaft, i tapped with my hammer and i have moved shaft 1 inch forward into hydralic chamber, this however is as far as i got, i cannot grab it or tap any more on shaft to remove. Hopefully you can see the 1 or 2 photos, uploading was taking 4 ever.



 
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stu (ON)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey Jeff,
It has been a while since I did the repair, but I did make some notes.
I sat with my left hand in the PTO compartment and my right hand in the hydraulic compartment. It seems that I was able to get a grip on the protruding shaft in the hydraulic compartment with my right hand and with my left hand use the intermediate gear as a slide hammer to keep banging forward. Washers & bearings fall out as you go. You might try twisting the gear against the shaft to give some added grip.

Depending on which of your pics I look at, the following advice that I was given may, or may not apply. If you look up into the hole where the set screw was, and can still see a bit of the dimple, I am told that you can use a hammer and long punch to tap the shaft further ahead by tapping the dimple.

Finally, I have never read this, but if you are really stuck you may want to investigate. Once, when working on the wet clutch, I believe that I noticed a small hole in the compartment wall that would separate the wet clutch from the PTO oil compartments. I thought that it would line up right around where the end of that intermediate gear shaft would rest in its recess. If nothing else was working, I would remove the cover of the wet clutch chamber and see if I couldn't tap a tiny drift pin into that hole.
If you try this, let us know how you make out.

Once you get the gear out, you will see why you have to tie or glue the washer(s) & bearing (s) in place when you go to put the gear & shaft back in place.

stu
 
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Jeff Kinnett
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Stu, i have tried everything you have discussed with me but I
cannot get that intermediate shaft out. the shaft itself 1
idown is smaller so I can tap it in with a hammer and
screwdriver about 1 inch in is all the farther I can get it in to
the hydraulic chamber, I cannot think of anything else to try
so I might have to just call a tractor shop for help.
For help. Thanks for your thoughts on this...
 
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stu (ON)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jeff, I was lucky, but I have heard from others that these can be a bear at times. But, don't give up too quickly. The factory service procedure is to split the tractor and pull the torque tube off and stand it on end. And you would likely have to loan your manual to a young mechanic in order to have him tell you that.

Your chamber has been full of oil recently, so at least you are not dealing with dry &/or rusty parts. By the time that you have the shaft an inch into the hydraulic chamber, you have likely pulled it from its recess at the other end. It is now supporting all of the weight of that gear cluster. That is why I think it is important to provide a good lift to the gear while tapping it forward and pulling from the front end. You definitely do end up in an intimate position with the right frame rail.

I would not be afraid to tap the shaft back in the other direction a little just to see if I could get things moving. My recollection is that there was just a little back & forth play in the gear that made me feel I was helping it along. Is that your experience?

I believe that the gear & shaft are at the right of the pic of my pile of parts




 
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Jeff Kinnett
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

well stu I didn't want to give up, never
thought that the gear weight was an
issue, the one thing that I cannot believe
is that there's only 3/4 of a inch in front
of the big washer on shaft, their is so
little room to fit any tool what so ever to
get shaft to move, tapping litely with my
huge scredriver is the only thing i come
up with to get it moving, then only less
than a inch of shaft in hydralic chamber
shows and i cannot grab it with nothing
except my fingers and it feels solid in the
hole or no free movement to speak off,
Now you say maybe gear weight onthe
other end is causing the tightness,
anyway i am dissappointed i cannot get
shaft to move more than it does. I will try
to hold the gear up with one hand to see
if that will help.
 
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Jeff Kinnett
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Stu, great news after trying for one week my son in law was
up last night, show him my attempts on gear removal, he was under tractor trying like i did using a
long screwdriver with tip slightly bent to tap on shaft, well he
ended up using a longer narrow screwdriver, tapping it i
could see coming out, finally removed. After gear removed
we saw the back washer damaged pinning inward on shaft,
probably the issue why gear was stuck. Thank you so
muchStu, your help was appreciated.Stu are you a tractor
mechanic, can i reach you thru email if needed for futur
assistance, or just this forum if you check it enough
 
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stu (ON)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jeff, I am really pleased to learn of your success. I am no tractor mechanic; just an old guy nursing along the 1951 WD that Grandad purchased new to mow meadow and push snow as long as Mom remains on the old farmstead.
I cannot tell you how much help I have received from others on tractor forums and the way I try to reward them is to help others as they come along. There is not much new to be learned on a 60 year old tractor.
You still have the trick to learn how to attach that stubborn rear washer and hold needle bearings in place while you support gear cluster in left hand and insert shaft with right. Better yet to get S-I-L to hold gear up. I tied things together with Mom's thread, but others have glued things in place.
I am on forum in fits & spurts, spending a lot of time at farm with dial-up only. I will PM to you an e-mail address for me that you can reach me. I will help you where I am able.

Good luck,
stu (ON)

PS
PM is disabled. If you want to reach me, just reply again to this thread & it will notify me. Maybe I can activate my safe e-mail as well. Haven't used it before.
 


Last edited by stu (ON) on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jeff Kinnett
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1953 WD45 Allis Chalmer intermediate gear damaged Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Stu, thanks again to reach me no
problem, here is one contact
jkinnett44@gmail.com. This keeps
your email private. Godbless Jeff
 
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