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long ratchet extensions

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ben harpo
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't know if this started as a joke, but it turned into a good habit. Whenever getting a ratchet I always put an extension on it. The longer the extension the better, usually. 8"-10" extensions are really good.

9 times out of 10 the extension does more harm than good. It makes the ratchet a two handed tool. And sometimes I can bring a knee into it. Gripping the socket with a few fingers is not as good. Torque problems only arise when using wobbles or too many drive fittings. In those cases where the extension doesn't help, it takes 2 seconds to remove. Whereas not picking up the extension because you probably won't need it is the wrong way to look at it. Pick it up every time and be surprised how often it helps.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In about all my tool boxes I like to carry several extensions, short stubbys all the way up to 12 to 18 or even 24 inches or what I have room for lol. I ONLY use them IF NEEDED to keep things in alignment and at 90 degrees, but when needed of course I like to keep a hand on them to maintain the 90 degree angle. I also prefer 6 to 12 point sockets especially if high torque and/or worn nuts are involved.

DISCLAIMER, this is ONLY an opinion like all other opinions posted here, there's a chance it may be right or it may be wrong, I'm NOT saying it is or it isn't, use at your own risk.

John T
 
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rustyfarmall
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote


An extension should be used only when you can't reach the bolt or nut otherwise. The longer the extension, the less torque you can put to that stubborn nut.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

YES and if you ever have to use an air impact wrench on a really tight nut, you can see just how much less effective it is if you start hanging extensions on there lol Energy gets wasted/absorbed in flex and vibration versus that which otherwise goes to direct torque grrrrrrrrr

John T
 
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guido
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello rustyfarmall,

Socket extension does not change torque applied.
Torque wrench cheater bar DOES!

Guido.
 
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guido
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello John T,

You are talking about two different animals.
Loss of applied torque, and torque applied,

Guido.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

EXACTLY some of the ENERGY supplied by the wrench gets wasted/absorbed in flex and vibration, therefore less energy is used to supply twisting force torque to the nut where its needed grrrrrrrrrrr

The extensions do not create or destroy energy, only change its form. The energy supplied by the wrench is all used (none created or destroyed) but some goes to turn the nut and the other as flex and vibration.

Its the old Physics principle of conservation of energy all over again

Fun chattin with ya

DISCLAIMER this opinion, like all others here, may be right or may be wrong, and Im not saying if it is or it isn't

John T
 
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guido
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello John T,

It appears you have a good understanding of the energy dissipation, through metal flexing, while applying force-torque. The old energy explanation,
works for me1

Guido.
 
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ben brown
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Location: west kentucky

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

some one ex plane to me how a cheater on a click type torque wrench would change the torque i always heard that,, but getting old and 200 ft pounds is getting to be a challenge for a 150 lb old man.
 
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JerryBowers
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It doesn't. The torque wrench will still click at the preset value
regardless of the cheater.
 
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guido
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello ben brown,

Changing the length of the torque wrench will change the torque applied.
Here is a picture of some torque values and what makes them change. The last pictures shows that the length is changed the torque applied will also change,

Guido.



 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I find myself probably grabbing extensions more in recent years. Not only does it enable me to have more room to twist the ratchet, but I have to spend less time at the gym because of all that additional effort I have to expend making up for all the torque that I lose by using the extensions.
 
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NCWayne
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Adding an extension to the handle end of the wrench, which I assume is what your saying, won"t change anything but the input force needed to reach the selected torque. Think about it like this, of your pulling 250 ft lbs with a 1/2 drive wrench that has a 12" long handle, x amount of force is needed to reach the selected torque. If you do the same 250 ft lbs with a 3/4 drive wrench that has a handle 36" it will take substantially less force to reach the same 250 ftlbs of torque on the output. That"s why they call the extra length a "cheater"....

On the other hand if you were to add anything to the other end of the wrench, say a crows foot wrench, etc. then the applied torque would change. In that instance, the amount of change would be dependent upon the distance of the fastener from the center line of the torque wrenches output/drive, just as the other posts have stated.

Now if you add an extension, in theory, the applied torque won"t change. Thing is if the extension doesn"t have enough torsional strength to not twist before the fastener reaches the selected torque, then the actual applied torque will be off, regardless of whether your using a clicker type wrench or a beam type wrench.
 
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Butch(OH)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A person could place 100 feet of extensions between two torque wrenches and when the torque reading on the one being turned reached say 150 Foot lbs you will have exactly the same reading on the other end no matter how many revolutions you have to turn it to wind up all the extensions. Now put an 800lb capable impact wrench on the end of those extensions and you'd be lucky to get a bolt much over finger tight just as you said. BUT The reason the impact wont work with long extensions is the impact wrench applies torque in spikes that last only a few degrees followed by zero applied torque for many degrees. The extensions do not change the total amount off energy being developed. But due to the springing they spread that force out over a longer time period. Since they make or destroy no energy as you said the peak torque must come down when the time it is applied goes up.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: long ratchet extensions Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Another thing is the difference if you were using a breaker bar versus an air impact wrench. The impact wrench sits there and hammers and and surges and some of its output torque is absorbed and dissipated due to the rotational flexing of the extension each time the wrench hits it. If it were a perfect mechanical device (no friction or heat losses) the energy it absorbs would be returned each time the shaft bounced back but when theres friction and flexing involved I bet there are some wasted heat losses??? With a breaker bar (no surging pulsing and bouncing ) the extension can still flex, but once you turn it to its elastic limit if all was at 90 degrees, after that torque in should equal torque out Id guess?? But hey Im an electrical NOT a mechanical or structural engineer NO WARRANT MAY BE RIGHT OR WRONG AS RAIN LOL

Still a very fun chat

John T
 
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