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6000 commander safety start switch


 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:13 am    Post subject: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had the 6000 in the shop to do a little tranny valve work so, as it has started in any gear since I have owned it, I decided it was time to fix that too. I found the wire cut off to the safety switch under the cover so I replaced it and confirmed that the switch only goes to ground when in the park position. I put it all back together and tried to start it in gear. (with the traction disconnect disconnected)It started in gear. Next I decided to check the small wires to the relay.I found the wire which receives 12 volts when the key is turned and the other wire that went to ground. I took the wire from the relay that went to ground and hooked it to my safety starter switch. Now it should only start when in park right? Wrong. It still starts in any gear. Next I removed the wire from the relay that went to ground and left it unhooked and the tractor still started. So my assumption is that I have the wrong relay. The relay I have must be connected to ground through the mounting hardware and I need a relay that is only hooked to ground through the small post. Does this sound right?
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I'm not at all certain on the 6000 circuitry, but the smaller tractors of that vintage had a wire right from the starter switch to the safety switch in the transmission. That switch needed to be closed for the starter to work. Are you sure your safety start switch is not faulty and that it does in fact open when it should?
 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes. Checked with ohmeter. Direct path to ground in
park, open circuit in any other gear.
 
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Texas!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The earlier X01 tractors with the SOS used the same starter solenoid as the manual trans tractors- Ford 311007 for 6V and 311006 for 12V. One of the small posts connects to 6V or 12V at the junction block and the other small post connects to ground through the starter push button. On the SOS tractors the ground passes through the push button and through the P safety switch.
 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 6000 is key start so no pushbutton. I am thinking the 12 volt supply from the key start position should go to 1 small post and the other small post goes through the safety switch to ground only in the park position. Sound right? The 311006 should work for me.
 
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Texas!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That will work as long as the key switch provides 12V power and not ground in the start position.
 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The key switch does supply 12volt power so I will purchase a new relay and wire it up. Nothing worse than starting a tractor and thinking it is in park just to find out it is in gear. Quite a scary thing. Thanks for the help.
 
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TimPa
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I may have missed something, but that is what you want, right?
 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes that is what I want but right now the tractor will start in any gear with the safety switch open or closed. When I remove the "ground" wire from the relay (small terminal #2) and leave it disconnected the tractor still starts. It appears the relay is grounded internally and doesn't need the 2nd small terminal grounded to work. I need the power to go to small terminal #1 and then out through small terminal #2 to the safety switch. Then when I energize small terminal #1 the safety switch needs to be grounded to work. Right now the relay is always grounded and doesn't need small terminal #2 to be connected to ground to work.
 
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Texas!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I went to the NH parts site and the 311006 solenoid was in fact used on the 6000- both gas and diesel. It looks exactly like the solenoid used on Ford cars of the 60's but they are different internally. Someone probably put a car solenoid on your 6000 and that's why it doesn't work properly.
 
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cbrown9064
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Texas! wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:54:39 01/05/14) I went to the NH parts site and the 311006 solenoid was in fact used on the 6000- both gas and diesel. It looks exactly like the solenoid used on Ford cars of the 60's but they are different internally. Someone probably put a car solenoid on your 6000 and that's why it doesn't work properly.


That is exactly what I was thinking also. Instead of "rewiring" tractor with a relay, etc... Get the proper starter solenoid. Someone probably got a car/truck solenoid at one time and put it in. That is why the ground wire to the safety switch was disconnected.

The way the car solenoids work is power is applied to one of the small terminals and the solenoid grounds via its mounting tabs. Apply power, solenoid closes.

The way the tractor solenoid works is opposite. Power is applied to a small terminal, but it does not close until a ground is applied to the other small terminal. The neutral or park safety switch complete the circuit when the tractor is in park. When you twist the key to "start" power should be sent to the small terminal on the solenoid.

My $0.02...
 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My plan is to get the 311006 and install it correctly. P.S. the
solenoid is referred to as a relay in the parts look up so
when I was talking about wiring up a new relay I was
referring to the relay/solenoid.
 
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cbrown9064
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jake Collie wrote:
(quoted from post at 00:11:04 01/06/14) My plan is to get the 311006 and install it correctly. P.S. the
solenoid is referred to as a relay in the parts look up so
when I was talking about wiring up a new relay I was
referring to the relay/solenoid.


Roger that...misunderstood. Sounds like you have a plan.
 
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Texas!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jake Collie wrote:
(quoted from post at 05:11:04 01/06/14) My plan is to get the 311006 and install it correctly. P.S. the
solenoid is referred to as a relay in the parts look up so
when I was talking about wiring up a new relay I was
referring to the relay/solenoid.


From Wikipedia:

"a solenoid switch, which is a specific type of relay that internally uses an electromechanical solenoid to operate an electrical switch; for example, an automobile starter solenoid".
 
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Jake Collie
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: 6000 commander safety start switch Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yup, I have a plan. We'll see how it goes. Thanks much for your $0.02. Smile
 
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