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New issue with my JD 450c


 
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njthor
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:19 am    Post subject: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This is my first dozer so I am all new to this type of equipment. I just bought the dozer last week and now I am finding out all the small problems it has. Able to fix most of them but I now have a steering problem. It occurs when the dozer in at a angle. On flat surface I do not seem to have the problem. Also it does not occur all the time it seems to be some what random. So here is the problem.....When I pull back on the right stick the dozer stops. The left track does not turn. With or with out a load. On flat ground it turns fine. I checked the fluid and the level is fine. However it is a little milky. So I think some water has gotten in there. I want to change the fluid (hoping that will fix the problem) Is the drain on the bottom of dozer? What type of fluid and how much? Also is there a left and right side to fill? When I checked the fluided under the seat there was just one dip stick in the middle so I assumed it feed both sides but I keep reading about two different compartments. My last question is is there any easy adjustments for my turning problem if the new fluid does not work? Also is there a cheaper PDF manual around for this machine hoping not to drop $200 just for a manual Thanks for any help you can give...
 


Last edited by njthor on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bret4207
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Location: St Lawrence Valley, Northern NY

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

First thing you want to get is an operators manual.
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You need to explain the problem with more detail.
When you say the left track "does not turn" . . .
is that with the left lever fully engaged (take
your hand off of it)? The left side has nothing
to do with the right side. It sounds to be that
your left track hardly has any power - ever. You
don't notice it until you take the power off the
right track. Also . . what does "not turn" mean
to you? You can turn slowly by declutching, or
turn fast by declutching AND braking. Need more
description. Each side has a clutch and a brake.
If the clutches are slipping - the wet disks are
probably ruined but it won't hurt to check the
pressure to them. If the brakes aren't working -
they're either worn out or out of adjustment. The
"C" series was the first to have self-adjusting
brakes. They worked terrible and were often
disabled. If you want to test . . do this. Put
the machine in 3rd gear. Hold your foot on the
brake hard or put the blade against a tree (so the
crawler cannot move). Have the macine in 3rd
gear, low range with both steering levers held all
the way back. Let the left one out slowly. You
should be able to stall the engine. If not, the
left is slipping. Then do the same with the right.
To test the brakes do this. Park on a steep hill
facing up. Must be steep enough to the crawler
wants to roll backwards in neutral. Let it roll
as you apply each brake, one at a time. See if
each track stops. You can also do the same test
rolling forwards if you want. To test
clutch/brake adjustment . . park on a steep hill
again , facing up. 2nd gear, L. Hold both levers
all the way back with your foot on the brake. Let
both levers out (towards the front) slowly. There
should be a narrow spot where the crawler starts
to roll and then a little further, it goes
forward. That narrow spot - with no brakes and no
clutch must be there. If not the clutch power
fights against the brakes whenever you use the
levers.
 
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njthor
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

To try and better explain...When I pull the right stick back the right side stops as it should. But my left side stops as well. I am not touching the left stick at all at this point. It should be moving and thus turning the dozer. This happens when I am on a hill facing up or down. On flat ground it seems to operate fine even with a load. I will check the stall test today when I get home. Does this sound like my left side clutch is bad? If so how much doe sthis cost to get fixed. Rough estimate....No way I can do it myself. No time and to scared LOL.
 


Last edited by njthor on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like all you have - ever - is the right
track driving. Left clutch is probably no good.
As to cost? As to fixing? Wet clutch Deeres cost
a small fortune to fix. One reason why I'd never
own one. Many shops will refuse to warranty
unless all steels and fiber linings are replaced
along with seals. Often an oil manifold is need.
8 steels cost $450. 8 fiber disks cost $640.
Seals and piston cost $200. A manifold if needed
is $177. Total parts: $1500 not counting new oil.
Labor? One full day to be safe. If shop rate is
$80, that's $640. so such a repair just for one
side can easily run over $2000. Make sure you
check the pressure to the clutch and make sure
it's geting the proper PSI. Have you looked under
the seat to make sure the linkage is working right
and the hydraulic spools are going in an out?
 
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njthor
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ran the tests this morning.
1. Tried to stall it in 3rd but ground was to soft if I let just one side out it would just spin the track. Both left and right side. If I let both out at the same time that would stall the dozer.

2. When rolling it backward both sides brakes worked just fine.

3. When on hill and letting both levers out slowly at the same time I did find that narrow spot were it began to roll backwards.

Ran it hard for a half hour today and everything ran perfect. Both sides worded great had no issues. So not sure why some times it works great then other times it does not. Want to check the fluid for each side. Where do you check the fluid? Looked and could not find it. If low what type of fluid should I put in? If it is low would that make it slip or not engage? The dozer sat for over a year before I bought it perhaps it just needs to run a bit to unstick everything? I know I am reaching there....
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is uses John Deere Hyguard or equivalent. It's a
combo trans/hydrauic oil. The HL-R transmission is
what powers the steering clutchs. There's a gear
pump inside the HL-R powershift trans that sends
hydraulic power to the steering clutches. There's a
dipstick on top of the HL-R trans. You need an
operator's manual so you know how to check and
maintain.
 
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T Asbill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a 450C that is doing almost the same exact thing except the right side will quit pulling when I pull the left lever sometimes Usually when I am on a slope. But then it will work fine for awhile. I can drop the blade in the dirt and both tracks will just dig. I have checked the pressure it is running about 175psi but it does not react like the manual says it should it drops to low when shifting and takes to long to come back up. Shifting from forward to reverse it seems sluggish. I just changed trans fluid the screen was horribly dirty. Any ideas what else to check I suspect that something is stopped up since the pressures do not react like the manual says it should.
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: New issue with my JD 450c Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The HL-R powershift transmission has an adjustment procedure for proper pressure-swing and shifting. There's a an adjuster bolt under the floor that has a 5/16" or 3/8" jam nut on it. If you have a steering clutch that slips when getting 175 PSI, the clutches are likely the problem.
 
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