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Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch +

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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

starter button. Ok first off thanks for the advice about the pto shaft got a new one went right in worked great. Now what happened was after I got the fluids pto shaft back in I went out to mow the pasture about half way thru it the positive side of the battery caught fire. The problem was I think about 8 months ago I had a guy tune it up and put in a new gauge starter button and kill switch, and solenoid, the problem was when you shut the tractor down with the kill switch the electric gauge still said electric was going thru the tractor. I had one of those screw off positive connections so to kill it I just undid the connection. Now I am not sure what to do here because there isn't anybody willing to come out and work on it and I do not have a trailer large enough to haul it anyplace.

How the man hooked it up was like this, from the starter and solenoid he has a battery type cable hooked to the starter then to the solenoid, from solenoid is one red wire on top going to the starter button switch and on the other side of the solenoid one yellow and one white and the battery positive cable. The white wire goes to the starter switch and the yellow goes to the kill switch, on the gauge there is one red that goes to the starter switch and a yellow that goes to the generator plug and on that plug is a red wire that hooks to a screw on the generator. Then there is a wire going to the I assume the armature from the kill switch

With all this according to the owners manual there seems to be more wires than needed and I have called the man that did this but he has ignored me but he did not charge me for what he did. He told me then that he put the starter button where the key slot use to be because the original button was going bad but I never had a problem with it. So if anybody knows how this should be wired please let me know I am not sure if its better to try and get this right or to just buy an original type key which I assume becomes the kill switch and a new floor button.
Thanks!
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would tell you to strip the wiring & start over with the proper one of my diagrams (or any other good one), but I don't have any idea about your "kill switch", "electric gauge", what generator (you mention no regulator), or what of many possibilities you may have for a solenoid. Too many unknowns. Don't even know if positive or negative ground or if 6 volt or 12 volt! Real mess, I would say. These things are real simple, but gotta know what it there to even begin. Can wire up all the wrong parts correctly & they still won't function.
 
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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok it is a 12 volt, regulator I assume is what I referred to as the armature the two prong item on the inside middle of dash, generator is the one that was on the tractor when I bought it nothing seemed out of order till now the solenoid do not know what brand or what it is other than it has 3 connections one on top and one on each side, kill switch is just a pull knob pull it out and start motor and when pushed in it should kill it but it kills the motor but not the electric, it was not like before the guy wired it up, when you pushed the knob in it all died.
 
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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jmor, after looking at the picture of the solenoid on yesterdays tractor parts the one put on mine does not look like that, it has the body horizontal instead of vertical like yesterdays tractor part picture. If the solenoid is wrong would it allow the electric to continue to go thru the tractor like its doing? Thanks
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The solenoid only applies power to the starter when engaged.
It is the rest of the wiring that does not shut the power off.
I would second JMOR's suggestion. Take it all out and start over.
Google "wiring diagrams by JMOR" to find the diagrams.
The wiring is fairly simple, you don't need a Rube Goldberg
setup with a kill switch and extra garbage in there.
 
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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Royce I agree, after looking at Jmor's diagram I see things run to and from places they should not be, my question is, there is a resister on the inside dash right in the middle and there is not a terminal block which I understand is just a item to make things easier to connect and Jmor's diagram runs many wires from it,can I do the same wiring from the resister? Thanks!
 
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Royse
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You might be able to use one side of it but the two sides
would not be isolated like the terminal block is so it wouldn't
work the same if you tried to use both sides.
The terminal block can be purchased here on YT.
 
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pinball
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have an alternator or generator. If you were using the tractor for awhile then this happened it would seem you are overcharging which might explain the fire at your battery. If you still had power on the tractor with the switch shut off then I would say the switch is wired wrong. Guess your talking about a key switch and not a toggle switch. just wonder if he hooked up the kill switch to the wire going to the coil. that would kill the tractor but if he did then that's a problem as you would still have power going through the rest of the tractor. Look at the wiring diagrams and use a volt meter to test certain points and I think you can fix it your self.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

rlfmu wrote:
(quoted from post at 01:34:32 06/06/16) Royce I agree, after looking at Jmor's diagram I see things run to and from places they should not be, my question is, there is a resister on the inside dash right in the middle and there is not a terminal block which I understand is just a item to make things easier to connect and Jmor's diagram runs many wires from it,can I do the same wiring from the resister? Thanks!
I am making some guesses, based on your postings. Perhaps you can verify this wiring guess. Also which picture does your "generator" look like? Also, is it correct, that when it was working, that you could start it whether in neutral or in gear?



 
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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jmor the generator looks similar to the gm one but not exactly on it at the top right is a plug. Also from the solenoid he had the starter wire the positive battery connection and the red wire going to the volt meter on one post. And before this hook up it did not start in gear but I found out by accident the other day it would start in gear. The top post on the solenoid had one red wire going to the kill switch, and yesterday I had the positive connection on the battery and was checking with a meter what and where things were hot and I left it on about an hour later I went back out after seeing your diagram to see where the block would go and I touched the resister and it was really hot like light a cigarette hot.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote


".... he had the starter wire the positive battery connection and the red wire going to the volt meter on one post. " All of these 3 wires are on the same solenoid post?? Please refer to large solenoid post #1 and large solenoid post#2 (I don't care which you call 1 or 2 , just be consistent. And to the other solenoid post as "small post".
 
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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok sorry Jmor here is exactly how it is wired. Solenoid: Post 1 yellow wire, white wire, + battery cable, the yellow goes to kill switch, white goes to starter switch which is a push button, where the key slot is, Post 2 has a battery cable to the starter frame. Small post: red wire to starter button. Now the resister has two wires, one going to coil and a wire from coil to distributor. Other resister post has red wire going to kill switch.
Volt meter has one white and two red, white is connecter to body where the - battery cable is connected, one red has a fuse and is connected to starter button, other red goes to generator attached to a screw, now the kill switch has a yellow wire that goes from it to the generator and ends in a plug that plugs into the generator and a red wire on the other side of the plug that is also attached to the same screw the volt meter red wire is.

Hope this makes since. Thanks!
 
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R Geiger
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

rlfmu wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:28:56 06/06/16) Jmor the generator looks similar to the gm one but not exactly on it at the top right is a plug. Also from the solenoid he had the starter wire the positive battery connection and the red wire going to the volt meter on one post. And before this hook up it did not start in gear but I found out by accident the other day it would start in gear. The top post on the solenoid had one red wire going to the kill switch, and yesterday I had the positive connection on the battery and was checking with a meter what and where things were hot and I left it on about an hour later I went back out after seeing your diagram to see where the block would go and I touched the resister and it was really hot like light a cigarette hot.


If it looks like the one mark"GM" that would be an alternator, not a generator. proper terms are important when you want people to understand what you are talking about. Generators are usually 6 volts and alternators are usually 12 volts.
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK, It looks like this: (almost & will after you make voltmeter connection change).


Comments: Leave red with fuse connected to red going to alternator, BUT disconnect voltmeter from this point AND re-connect voltmeter to "kill switch" as shown in red. ( You should really call that the ignition on/off switch.) This should all work with the possible exception that even when you turn off the 'ignition switch, the engine may keep running, since I see no diode as in Bob's alternator picture. It is different in that the fuse is in odd place (Ford never used fuses) & there is no neutral start safety now. Your voltmeter will now go off with ignition off. Nothing here should have caused battery fire. Probably bad/lose connection at battery terminal or disconnect device got hot & melted some plastic insulation.
 
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rlfmu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Ford 1952 8N wireing solenoid gauge and kill switch + Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JMOR thank you! What I did is purchased from YT a new solenoid, copper solenoid bracket, key ignition and terminal block. I have your diagram to rewire it using the terminal block my question is do I get rid of the resister and just use the terminal block or wire everything else like your diagram says and leave coil wire and wire going to ignition switch on the resister, I will also wire the original start button back up I do like the safety factor not being there. Thanks!
 
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