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CUB CONDENSER

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kfnut
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a CUB that has a 12 volt conversion . Do I use the same condenser as the 6 volt ?
 
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gene bender
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

yes
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Capacitors are matched to the ignition coils based on their inductance, not system voltage. If you changed the coil, then technically, it might call for a different capacitor. The differences are minor and most are .22 to .28 Mfd. If you have the wrong cap for the coil, the points arc more then then should and burn out prematurely.
 
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kfnut
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks . That makes it easy .
 
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gene bender
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have any proof of that.Diff of 6 mfd realy isntthat much and with voltages varying from systems that would be hard to prove even in theory
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The "voltage withstand" rating of a condenser used in EITHER a 6 or 12 volt system is MUCH higher then 6 or 12 volts anyway, so subject to the coil YES a proper rated condenser can be used in EITHER a 6 or 12 volt system. Its the capacitance that's critical more then if in a 6 or 12 volt tractor. The condenser capacitance is sized to work with the inductance of the coil, so subject to the coils inductance the same size condenser might be the same in either a 6 or 12 volt system.

If there's no condenser at all the coil can still fire but the points will burn up prematutely,,,,,,,,,,If the condenser is too large there may not even be a spark,,,,,,,,,,,,If the condenser isn't sized properly there may be a build up on one of the points surfaces.

Hope this helps

John T
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Proof of what? That different coils with different inductance ratings use different caps? Yes. Easy to verify.
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Isn't that exactly what I already stated and someone already disagreed with?
 
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JDEM
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All electric conductors can store electricity and the ability is based on surface area. A "condensor" or "capacitor" has lots of surface area. Older ones used in ignition systems with points are often made of a roll of tin-foil inside a can. That storage capacity is measured in microfarads and is supposed to match the inductance of the primary windings in the ignition "solenoid-type" coil.

In the 50s and 60s, Autolite typically used a .25 to .28 Mfd condensor, regardless if a 6 volt or 12 volt system (often the same coil was used). Delco-Remy typically used a .18 to .23 Mfd condensor.

Magnetos have capacitance specs e.g. a Case 4JMA is .4 Mfd, Edison CD is .15-.25 Mfd, Fairbanks-Morse XR6A-B is .36 Mfd., Wico XH is .16-20 Mfd., Wico XHD is .30-34 Mfd., etc.

The differences are minor. Technically, if you changed coils and still have points - the condensor/capacitor is supposed to match the primary inductance of the new coil (often 250-300 watt-hours).

 
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John T
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If so we are right and they are wrong........

John T Retired Electrical Engineer
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Interesting discussion. I agree that different coils with different inductance ratings mate with different caps

But, won't these ideal values vary with frequency (RPM), so the designer chooses values to put the resonant frequency either at the center of the rpm range, or at the anticipated RPM that would be most used or require most efficient operation?

Probably not as significant a concern at low frequency engines vs. higher frequency electronic equipment

Has anyone every seen a coil or condenser with values printed on the can or even on the box it came in??
 
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gene bender
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

so how many hrs is it going to take till I get the points messed up because my condenser isn't just the correct one for my dist or mag
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Regardless of RPM when the points are closed the cap is setting there discharged and theres x joules of energy stored in the coil/inductor. Then when the points break open some current flows into the cap and it charges up and stores x energy but when they go back closed that energy gets discharged back through the closing points in the other direction. If each charge and discharge the energy flow through the points is the same it wont build a pit on one side and mound on the other side SO IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE ITS THE CAPS CAPACITANCE AND THE COILS INDUCTANCE THAT NEEDS TO BE BALANCED/MATCHED and that's true regardless of frequency BUT NO WARRANTY ON THAT AT ALL.

NO I don't see inductance and capacitance labeled on coils and condensors but that sure dont mean they aren't rated and arent engineered to work in certain applications and again YES the condenser is rated to work with certain inductance coils. If the wrong values are used points go bad prematurely and can pit or mound as Johns picture shows

John T
 
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Does anyone else find it interesting that the condenser has to absorb a way higher voltage coming from the coil collapse than what the battery produces? Just think if you had a huge coil, with a small input, the resulting wattage coming out at battery disconnect would be way more than in a small ign coil. Why not harvest it?????
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: CUB CONDENSER Reply to specific post Reply with quote

High voltage is not a definition of power. The harvesting would undoubtedly reduce the rate of collapse of the magnetic field. This Back EMF would dampen the secondary output as well. Nah! Jim
 
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