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Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed


 
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Pwbum1
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good morning everyone, I am new here, just bought a ford **! serial number worn off so I don't know the exact year. Diesel select-o-speed, and PTO. I was using it pulling harrows for about two hours and all of a sudden a loud knocking noise so I parked it. It has been a few weeks and I finally was able to get around and drop the oil pan. The piston most forward in the engine has one side of the piston appears to be smashed in. If found some small metal shavings in the oil pan but nothing major which looks like it has come form the piston damage. Does anyone have any ideas of what might have caused this or could it just be wear and tear and perhaps time for this part to fail?





 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That's certainly not what I would call "normal wear". I'm going to guess that you have an ether addict on your hands that finally gave up and died.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Looks like the piston broke at the bottom oil ring groove, I can see what looks like a break line all around the piston just below the wrist pin.
Not sure what caused it, metal fatigue possibly, I'd replace all 4 pistons and have the rod bushings checked.
 
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riveroadrat
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Someone put a post on here that they left the bottom rings off and had the bottom groove filled in with weld and machined. He said the industrial motor pistons dont have that botton ring groove. I cant remember who it was. Ether is bad for diesels. When you here that bang you know a bomb went off and we all know what bombs do.
 
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agjim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is me that leaves the bottom ring off and welds the grove to give the skirt more support.

Jim from Leesburg, AL
 
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riveroadrat
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There you go! Is that just aluminum welding? How much to get them machined? Can you just put industrial pistons in them?
 
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Ken(Ark)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

riveroadrat wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:15:45 11/11/17) There you go! Is that just aluminum welding? How much to get them machined? Can you just put industrial pistons in them?


This would be interesting to know . I thought the skirts provided the support and pistons are produced slightly egg shaped to accommodate heat expansion , thus turning a piston on a common lathe inadvisable ?
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I was wondering that too.
Also the bottom grove is for the oil ring soon more machining would needed to move the oil ring up to the third grove.
 
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riveroadrat
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ken(Ark) wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:48:45 11/12/17)
riveroadrat wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:15:45 11/11/17) There you go! Is that just aluminum welding? How much to get them machined? Can you just put industrial pistons in them?


This would be interesting to know . I thought the skirts provided the support and pistons are produced slightly egg shaped to accommodate heat expansion , thus turning a piston on a common lathe inadvisable ?
The skirts prevent horizontal movement although down pressure does a lot of that. They are U-shaped to clear the crank when it turns past them. A motor with a long stroke would have the skirt all the way to the bottom. You can type in the search bar for agjim and pull up his posts. Click search and when it resets, click search again.
 
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Ken(Ark)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

riveroadrat wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:59:02 11/12/17)
Ken(Ark) wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:48:45 11/12/17)
riveroadrat wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:15:45 11/11/17) There you go! Is that just aluminum welding? How much to get them machined? Can you just put industrial pistons in them?


This would be interesting to know . I thought the skirts provided the support and pistons are produced slightly egg shaped to accommodate heat expansion , thus turning a piston on a common lathe inadvisable ?
The skirts prevent horizontal movement although down pressure does a lot of that. They are U-shaped to clear the crank when it turns past them. A motor with a long stroke would have the skirt all the way to the bottom. You can type in the search bar for agjim and pull up his posts. Click search and when it resets, click search again.


Yes , I am familiar with piston skirts . I have read several posts by AGJIM and have to question his logic . I am a typical skeptic of off the grid procedures with a very limited study group . Because someone has done something once and the motor is still running ten plus years later would require more verification for me . Taking a blind stab at metallurgy and machining is not something I would recommend . Is it possible ? Maybe so , I would like to hear more .
 
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tractorguy2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Help in Identifying Cause of Piston Bottom Being Smashed Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Had a 620 John Deere that did that once. It broke above the
piston pin.
 
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