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competitive budget pullers

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41106
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Most of us who have followed this forum for any length of time recall the days when a little more technical advice was asked and given. I for one miss reading the replies, ideas, etc... I have a nephew very interested in pulling, but is quite young so naturally money is an issue. Now before someone fires back at me that there's no such thing as a cheap puller, I agree, but do however feel that there is a lot more economical routes to take to success than others. So I thought it would be a fun thread to read if "been there, done that" pullers would share set ups they come up with. I do not mean stroked cranks, custom built pistons, or engines of the sort, I'm talking "improved" stock set ups. For example.....which AC chasis to start with running engine out of what, or crank and rods out of ?? using pistons from ??? etc..... Or which Oliver base tractor using dodge pistons from whatever, rods from whatever.....etc.... Also, we all know balance and traction are extremely important, I'm talking economical HP. To keep this sport alive and thriving, we need to keep younger people moving into the sport as others retire. Having a little success only makes them more enthusiastic. So, anyone out there willing to share some info? Thanks for reading, and Happy Holidays!
 
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chucksoliver77
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Being a Oliver guy I would suggest starting with a super 88 or 880 (about 60-65hp stock) and easy to get more without spending a ton of money. Chuck
 
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rpllr
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

310. In a oliver 77 is competitive and pretty cheap, 301 IH out of a combine in a 460 can compete, 3400 Hercules in a cockshutt is good too.
 
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mmfan55
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Minneapolis Moline!!!!! More parts interchangeable than any other brand. U or UB: 336 jugs and piston, good set of heads, will go from 44hp to around 80. Use pressed steel rims and 5000# is VERY achievable. Most any place will be competitive to 7000# or more. (Low gear or 3mph of course). Can go larger but this is budget build.
 
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Welding man
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Seems to me, even though it may not be possible to do because of your location, is to find a club that still pulls stock antique tractors. A club that has rules, enforces them and caters to the young and upcoming pullers and doesn't let money influence the sport. Our club was founded that way in 1993 and has been that way ever since. We pull stock antique tractors 1959 and older, no modified engines, no cut tires a 4 MPH speed limit. We give a drivers test to anyone under 16 years old. We give trophies, not money and have a 6 dollar hook fee. We pull for fun, not blood and we enjoy ourselves. Maybe that's really old school pulling, but as long as I am an officer in the club,that's the way it will be. I have backed out of the throttle more than once to let a youngster win. If a kid wins a trophy, he will come back, if he doesn't, he won't.
 
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Dblair
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm going with Chuck , get an Oliver something in the 880 range and bring the weight down .
 
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Ronnie Budd
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If he wants something that he can haul around with a 1/2 ton pickup and pull in the lighter antique tractor classes, there is a variety of smaller tractors that can be upgraded with a bolt in engine from a larger, or later model tractor and be very competitive. Things like an Allis WC or WD with an Allis 175 or Gleaner motor in it. A Massey 22 with a Massey 30 engine (3000 pounds). Massey 101 Senior or Super with a larger mill bolted in. Minneapolis Moline R with a stock ZA or ZB engine bolted in ( with one of the higher compression heads)will be very competitive in the 3500 pound class. All of these can pull 3500 pound class if the driver isn't too heavy. Many of them can be weighted down and pull 2 or 3 more classes as well. A Minneapolis U can make 5000 pounds and 80HP pretty easy, with stock factory bolt on parts.

I'm sure there are other examples from the other tractor colors, but these are ones I'm familiar with.
 
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johns
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree as well, go with an Oliver. Super 88/880 easy to get down to 4500#. Couple ideas: I would go with some new 3 7/8 sleeves and pistons(M&W from Korves Oliver), have the head cleaned up and the valve protrusion set correctly. 1650 carb/intake/exh manifold will also help. It makes a big difference esp for the kids confidence if the tractor starts and runs decent. Then find some decent tires and go pulling. The Olivers are easy to build and mount wt brackets and hitch. I think there is alot of cheap power to be found if a guy can get the compression up around 8.5 or 9:1 and still run pump gas vs factory compression in the 7s.
 
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EP
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A farmall 460 with a 301 would get my vote.
1) 90 hp right out of the box. If you put a silver diamond truck head on your over 100.
2) I think they are the best natural puller, well balanced, don't need to be weighed perfect to get a good pull.
3)decent gear selection and a t/a.
4)can get it down to 5000 lbs fairly easy.
5) parts are plentiful.
6) you could still use the tractor for other purposes, plowing, driving it to a pull if it's close. They are fast on the road.
Sometimes you see them set up like this for under 5000$ which is a lot of money but you would be hard pressed to build one from scratch for less.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote


A lot of good information here. This coming year will be my 20th season. I have seen the sport go from nearly all stock to nearly all enhanced. I supported and pushed for speed limits for years, to level the playing field. We got speed limits, but it didn't make much difference. What I found makes a difference is a soft track. The driver with plenty of power is very hard pressed to get it to the ground on a soft track. So my advice is go ahead and do some budget enhancing, on an Oliver, AC MM or Formal or Ford. Then ask around about stone boat pulls and soft tracks.
 
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mdross
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Obviously all clubs play by different rules. Ours for example tractors have to be prior 1960, no more than 10% engine power increase over stock, weight with driver no more than 1% over pulling class, rear tire size limited to 18.4 and finally no more than 3.5 mph. The next thing is enforce these rules except for a few that don't untill they get called out we all have a chance at winning.
 
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jon aller
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

More information is needed;
Sled or stone boat
Rules, Rules, Rules????? what can you do to the tractor, how new/old of tractor, what can you do to the tires?
 
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mmfan55
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As others have said: a lot depends on the rules where you plan to pull. If they allow engines other than "original ": that affords numerous options. I gather there are some events where a bone stock tractor is able to complete. Other places a bone stock unit falls way short. Find out what is and is not allowed and go from there. Have seen several folks that were excited to pull but failed to check things out and quit after 2 or3 pulls. No one enjoys finishing last every time. The excitement of pulling soon wears off.
 
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VicS
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

When I started pulling. It was back in the late 60s I was in my 20s. Dad had a 4010 John Deere. He had already put 18.4 X 38 tires on it. It was using oil. So needed to come apart. John Deere helped put 4020 pistons in it. While head was off Dad had the eyebrows ground out. And I put a 4320 intake on it. Turned drawbar around, got a D ring and made sure drawbar was 20 inches. Oh turned pump screw all the way in. Went pulling. Didn?t do so good. An old man asked me if I had water in my tires. I did. Got it out next time. Did a little better. Next pull while waiting another friend ask me what I had done to my Diesel pump. Believe it or not he took my pump off and on his tailgate took the leaf spring out! And two of the six governor weights. Also sent me to get yamalube. Mix it two quarts to five gallon. Unhooked the air cleaner. Wala she would run. Won a time or two after that. Then I learned about Molines. Went to work at a MM dealer. Bought a U for $100. A good friend bought a burnt GB for $500. He just wanted the rear end and tires. Sold me the engine for$250. It was a LP and had MW pistons. I changed it to gasoline. . A U is 4.25x5 in 283cu. In. A GB 4.650X6 423cu in. With MW pistons. Now I had a pulling tractor. The deal is nothing happens all at once. And you have to want to win, and keep working and thinking how to win. I quit for about 20 yrs raising a family and riding horses and wheelers. Got back in with a WC Allis. Combine motor. 1.750 stroke and .500 bore. 366 cu. Chevy valves etc. I never thought I could take a stock tractor and win! Same as I couldn?t race a stock 3 wheeler and win! Sorry Vic
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: competitive budget pullers Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-VicS wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:51:21 12/19/17) When I started pulling. It was back in the late 60s I was in my 20s. Dad had a 4010 John Deere. He had already put 18.4 X 38 tires on it. It was using oil. So needed to come apart. John Deere helped put 4020 pistons in it. While head was off Dad had the eyebrows ground out. And I put a 4320 intake on it. Turned drawbar around, got a D ring and made sure drawbar was 20 inches. Oh turned pump screw all the way in. Went pulling. Didn?t do so good. An old man asked me if I had water in my tires. I did. Got it out next time. Did a little better. Next pull while waiting another friend ask me what I had done to my Diesel pump. Believe it or not he took my pump off and on his tailgate took the leaf spring out! And two of the six governor weights. Also sent me to get yamalube. Mix it two quarts to five gallon. Unhooked the air cleaner. Wala she would run. Won a time or two after that. Then I learned about Molines. Went to work at a MM dealer. Bought a U for $100. A good friend bought a burnt GB for $500. He just wanted the rear end and tires. Sold me the engine for$250. It was a LP and had MW pistons. I changed it to gasoline. . A U is 4.25x5 in 283cu. In. A GB 4.650X6 423cu in. With MW pistons. Now I had a pulling tractor. The deal is nothing happens all at once. And you have to want to win, and keep working and thinking how to win. I quit for about 20 yrs raising a family and riding horses and wheelers. Got back in with a WC Allis. Combine motor. 1.750 stroke and .500 bore. 366 cu. Chevy valves etc. I never thought I could take a stock tractor and win! Same as I couldn?t race a stock 3 wheeler and win! Sorry Vic


Does that WC have four model airplane engines one behind the other?
 
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