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806 alternator draining battery

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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd have to say I hope the original setup isn't involved. That wiring is still on the tractor but the charge wire to the battery is all that is in the circuits. The original regulator is completely disconnected but the wiring harness is still there with the lights, etc.

But this ole girl has had a lot of "just make it do's" before I got it. The lights, charging, and starter all worked. The rest of it I worked around. I take another look at this alternator, maybe change the regulator, if need be.

Really appreciate the help on this and all things in the past. You guys are the very best.

Thanks, Bob
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks Jon. There isn't anything like that on this one. I have all the old wires disconnected. I'm looking at the regulator for a ground fault now. I have two different alternators with two different bench readings on the grounded regulator spade. One shows # 1 and the other #2. I'll post back if I get a fix.

Thanks for the help, Bob
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Keep your idiot lite, do not change to diode in your situation.

The #1 pin on alternator and power to ignition coil both feed from the switched side of the ignition switch. With the engine running and no isolation between alternator and switch, when the switch is turned off to shut down the engine, current can feed back from alternator #1 to switch to coil and allow the engine to continue run.

Some form of isolation is needed between alternator #1 and switch to prevent this engine run on. A diode, idiot lite, and resistor are all options to do this.

Since you do not have an ammeter, keep the idiot lite. It will give you a charge/no charge indication that you would lose with a diode and no ammeter.
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

?But I still have problem that showed up after it sat a couple of days. The battery was pretty well drained.?

?The drain occurs when I hook up the sensing wire from the output post to the #2 spade of the internal voltage regulator. With that connected I get a full 13 volt discharge, checked between the neg post of the battery and ground. Taking that wire off the regulator spade stops the drain. The "exciter" wire isn't affecting anything.?

I?m confused by your statement ?I get a full 13 volt discharge, checked between the neg post of the battery and ground.?
Are you meaning that with #2 pin connected to output stud you are seeing 13 volts between #2 and negative battery post as ground reference? If so that is normal.

Under normal conditions and the battery connected, the output stud on the alternator and the #2 should always show battery voltage, regardless if switch is on or off. The #1 should show zero volts with switch off and voltage with switch on. The voltage may vary depending on type of isolation device used. #1, #2, and output stud should all be at battery/charge voltage with engine running.

If it takes 2 days for battery to drain, it is a slow leakage. I have seen this happen with a couple of ?one wire? alternators, even if connected as a 3 wire. This slow leakage could be undetectable on an auto parts store alternator test.

If you do replace your alternator be sure and get a 3 wire, not a one wire. With the one wire you will lose the function of your indicator light, and, since you already have it set up as 3 wire, a one wire will not simplify anything.
 
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Brownie450
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do you have an older 20-0-20 or 30-0-30 ammeter such
as were found on an M or H?
If so, connect a wire to each post of the meter. An
alligator clip on the other end is helpful.

Pull the #2 wire off of the regulator spade & hook up
the ammeter between that wire & the #2 terminal.
Read current draw on the meter, & report what the draw
is.
All of this with the engine off--not running.
Sounds like the regulator is shorted internally.
Jim
 
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Brownie450
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Another thing---remove the heavy short jumper wire from the alt.
output terminal, when testing.
Check with the ammeter between the heavy batt. wire & #2 spade.
Also test between heavy wire & output post on alt.

This will show if a short in the regulator or in the rectifier bank.
Jim
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sorry about the confusion from my description. The 13 volt drain was the voltage I get between the negative post of the battery and a ground point on the frame. On other tractors I would get lesser voltage that wouldn't light a testing light. I don't know what the actual amperage would be.
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'll see if I can come up with an ammeter. Right now I just have the voltage tester and a test light.
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I just changed the voltage regulator on the alternator that tested good. Just running a continuity test on the new volt reg the continuity to ground on the case was on the #1 spade and on the one in the alternator when passing the same continuity was on the #2 spade. That would be the one in the alternator when draining the battery.
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your 806 with alternator would be a negative ground setup, meaning the negative post of the battery is connected via the "ground cable" to the tractor frame. From frame to negative battery post you should see zero volts and not begin to light up a test light. If you are seeing 13 volts, the ground cable is open. Battery cable is either disconnected or the cable and/or clamps are extremely corroded, dirty or defective.

If frame to grounded post on any tractor or vehicle battery reads more than a small fraction of a volt you have a bad cable and/or connections.

The voltage from frame to your positive post should be nearly equal to voltage directly across both battery posts.
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for bringing that up. I should have explained it better.

The 13 volt drain was from the negative post to frame with the ground cable disconnected from the battery. That's usually the way I check for a draw on the battery.
 
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rvirgil_KS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You are reading the battery voltage, which when looking for a current draw won't tell you anything. You need a current meter to put between ground and battery post. Do you have a current meter incorporated in your volt meter?

Another thing you could try is to unhook your alternator, leave battery connected and see if it continues to run down. If battery then runs down, problem is not alternator. If it does not run down then alternator is suspect.
 
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the tractor vet
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is NOT how and 806 is wired and the factory way worked well . when someone who does not know what they are doing and gets into the wiring with side cutters and a roll of RED wire and start rewiring you end up with problems . Forgive me but when it comes to wiring i get a wee bit OCD. as i have repaired many wiring harnesses and fixed many probelms to the point i can tell ya what color wire goes where on a 06 tractor . .
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would agree with that Vet. I think there may be some duct tape on this thing. I've had this tractor for over 25 years and no major problems. This charging thing is the first major headache, I think from the posts and what I have found it comes down to a bad regulator. It was probably burned out in the overcharging when the sense wire circuit failed.

I have hope and I appreciate the forum and all the help I've gotten.

Bob
 
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Bob21 Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: 806 alternator draining battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion, Rvirgil. What I have done is unhook the sense wire from the battery post on the the back of the alternator and put a volt meter between the negative post on the battery and the frame with the ground cable off the the battery. The voltage there reads zero. I hook up the sense wire to the volt reg spade #2 and the volt meter reads 13+ volts. I disconnect the battery wire to the alt post on back and leave the sense wire hooked to the #2 spade and the volts read 13 + volts at the battery post to ground.

I'm pretty sure this thing started with the sense wire circuit failing leading to the overheating alternator which upped the voltage to over 19 volts. That burned out the original voltage regulator and the new one I put in was grounded through the #2 spade.

Brownie suggested using an ammeter to get some more readings, which I'll do and post back. It looked like the regulator with the battery drain wasn't a Delco regulator. I got a new Delco and put it in. Just going by continuity I now have the circuit to ground on the #1 spade and the #2 spade is completely open.

We have this sub zero weather right now, but I hope to get it stuck back together see where I'm at today. I'll post back afterwards.

Appreciate it to no end, Bob
 
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