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1970s Fords

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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:19 am    Post subject: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Guys. Trying to decide on a tractor. I am considering a 1970s Ford just don't know which one. Can somone please tell me the difference between 3600, 4600, and 5600 vs the 3000, 4000 and 5000. Other than age, what are the major differences? I am really considering the 4600 but can really determine what sets it apart from the rest other than a few hp either way and a few years?

Thoughts.

Have a lead on a good condition Case 990 (55hp diesel) that is priced right. How do the above fords compare to the case 990? The case worries me a bit wit parts availability

Thanks
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Can't tell you the differences on the Fords. Not knowledgeable on Fords of the 70s.

I'm partial to Ford, but why would the Case worry you on parts any more than the Fords? They're all under the CNH umbrella nowadays.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Larry NCKS wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:35:58 12/31/17)
Can't tell you the differences on the Fords. Not knowledgeable on Fords of the 70s.

I'm partial to Ford, but why would the Case worry you on parts any more than the Fords? They're all under the CNH umbrella nowadays.


Somone can correct me if I am wrong, but the case worries me because it seems as if the 990 wasn't a super popular model in some areas of the country. It was imported and certain areas saw some imports while others saw none. This is all based on my reading of course. I don't want to order parts from England every time I need something.

I did start a post on my concerns with the 990 in the case forum. Trying narrow down the fords and find out what the real differences are.
 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Speaking only with regards to the 4-cylinder tractors...

When the x600 series came out in 1975, the primary changes were in the hydraulics and the styling (decals and grille). By then, dual power,
load monitor, and integral steering had already come out a few years earlier in the thousand series.

The biggest mechanical change with the 600 series would have been increased hydraulic flow. For the four cylinder models, it was increased
from 6.0 to 9.7 GPM. The addition of a spin-on hydraulic filter was also an important improvement.

There was also cylinder head porting changes with the 600 series that was supposed to improve combustion, but I doubt anyone could tell.
And yes, the HP was upped a few as well, and once again, most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Stated another way, if you were to drive a 1974 5000, and compare it to a 1975 5600, you would not be able to tell much difference.
 
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Fordfarmer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The x600's gained a few h.p. over the older models,
as you noted. (Although the 6600 (70 h.p.) was the
direct replacement for the 5000 (67 h.p.), while the
5600 (60 h.p.) split the difference between the 4600
and 6600.) They also got higher gpm hydraulic
pumps, twin control 3-point levers on the 3-cylinder
models, improved p/s, lower noise levels at the
operator's position by moving the exhaust forward,
alternators on all models rather than generators,
more reliable instrument clusters, and factory cabs
available starting in '77.
 
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CTPhil
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Larry NCKS wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:35:58 12/31/17)


I'm partial to Ford, but why would the Case worry you on parts any more than the Fords? They're all under the CNH umbrella nowadays.

In my travels around the internet and as the owner of 6 3 cylinder Fords, Fords are way ahead on parts availability IMO. Dealer parts for older tractors have come to rely heavily on the aftermarket, and Fords have an almost unbelievable parts aftermarket. Now India has entered that aftermarket, they have a huge number of 70's style Fords and Ford clones in service. And the parts are also far cheaper than other brands. It's a Golden Age for old Ford aficianados. Used parts abound also.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Bern wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:11:03 12/31/17) Speaking only with regards to the 4-cylinder tractors...

When the x600 series came out in 1975, the primary changes were in the hydraulics and the styling (decals and grille). By then, dual power,
load monitor, and integral steering had already come out a few years earlier in the thousand series.

The biggest mechanical change with the 600 series would have been increased hydraulic flow. For the four cylinder models, it was increased
from 6.0 to 9.7 GPM. The addition of a spin-on hydraulic filter was also an important improvement.

There was also cylinder head porting changes with the 600 series that was supposed to improve combustion, but I doubt anyone could tell.
And yes, the HP was upped a few as well, and once again, most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Stated another way, if you were to drive a 1974 5000, and compare it to a 1975 5600, you would not be able to tell much difference.


Good stuff...thank you..... so if I am understanding correctly the 600 series only had spin on hydraulic filers and the others did not? . The 4600 and 3600 were 3 cylinder diesels correct? Any disadvantage to the 3 cylinder vs the 4 cylinders when speaking of longevity, parts etc. Are the 600 series really better tractors or, as you mentioned is it basically just a change of cosmetics?

Also...something else I wondered is about the physical size of these tractors. Is there a size difference between say a 4600 and a 5600 and a 4000 and 5000 or are we just speaking about hp and some heavier duty items?

I really wish I could compare these models side by side for size differences as I know that the smaller 3600, mf 135 etc tend to be too small for me. Sitting on them I feel a bit cramped at 6'2".
 
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Welding man
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Larry there are tons and tons of good aftermarket parts for Fords,I have't bought a
genuine Ford engine part since FIAT took over.I know that not all aftermarket is good, but
there is good out there. As far as I am concerned on Fords, Fiat is aftermarket. I don't
think you will find near that much stuff for Case. I could be wrong.
 
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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The Case 990 was a rebadged David Brown, the only thing Case on that tractor that tractor is the paint and decals.
David Brown 990 has a very solid built tractor and well respected around here, but I only know of one still around here and it doesn't run.
Might want to check with your Case dealer to see well their parts support is for that model.

3000-3600 are smaller 40 pto hp utility tractors, sweep back axles, drum brakes, normally have 28" rear tires, low profile, very handy and nimble in close quarter work. Comparable in size and performance to the older 800-801 series Fords, 35-135 Massy's.

4000-4600 are slightly larger 45-50 pto hp models with straight front axle, wet disc brakes, normally have 30" rear tires.
Comparable in size and hp to the Case 990.

5000-5600 are larger chassis 4 cylinder models, very solid dependable tractors

Other than previously mentioned changes later -600 series have paper air filters instead of oil bath and more conveniently located parking brake controls
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As others have said, the X600s are really
the same tractors as their older sisters
the X000s.
The 600s did have some important
improvements but none of them really make
much difference in functionality or
longevity. Take a 4000 and a 4600 and they
will share about 90% of the same parts.
Same with a 3000/3600. Major componants
will all swap between them - heads,
cranks, blocks, tranny, axles, rear ends,
etc if you stay 4xxx to 4xxx, 3 to 3, 5 to
5 and so on. Wheel base, height, weight,
are the same within each series.
The back half of my 3000 is actually from
a 3600.
The 4xxxs are substantially more tractor
than the 3xxxs. Bigger, longer, heavier,
more hp. Best thing about the 4s and 5s
are the double reduction rear ends and wet
disc brakes. 3s had single reduction and
dry drum brakes which are ok but not
excellent like the others. 4s have a much
simpler, much heavier (better) front axle
and steering too, especially for loader
work. Early 5000 power steering was not
nearly as good as the later ones and
5600s.
Of course we like our Fords here and will
brag them up if given a chance but if you
go to Tractor Talk board and ask what were
the best utility tractors ever built in
that era - of all the major brands - the
4/5/46/5600s will consistantly come out on
top of the heap along with a couple of
Masseys. The 3010, 3020, 4010/20 JDs are
right up there too btw. The rest don't
even get mentioned.
Best includes, simplicity, longevity,
reliability, dealer support, parts
availability and probably other things.
They are good old tractors still.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Destroked 450 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:08:59 12/31/17)
The Case 990 was a rebadged David Brown, the only thing Case on that tractor that tractor is the paint and decals.
David Brown 990 has a very solid built tractor and well respected around here, but I only know of one still around here and it doesn't run.
Might want to check with your Case dealer to see well their parts support is for that model.

3000-3600 are smaller 40 pto hp utility tractors, sweep back axles, drum brakes, normally have 28" rear tires, low profile, very handy and nimble in close quarter work. Comparable in size and performance to the older 800-801 series Fords, 35-135 Massy's.

4000-4600 are slightly larger 45-50 pto hp models with straight front axle, wet disc brakes, normally have 30" rear tires.
Comparable in size and hp to the Case 990.

5000-5600 are larger chassis 4 cylinder models, very solid dependable tractors

Other than previously mentioned changes later -600 series have paper air filters instead of oil bath and more conveniently located parking brake controls


Thank you. Very good information. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. When I finally get something I will not be a stranger as I am sure I will have plenty of questions.

Interesting about the Case. Like I said, I have been researching the 990 for a few days now and talked to the owner of the tractor that I have my eye on. I am waiting for him to send me additional photos probably early this week to make a decision on whether or not to make the 1.5hr drive to take a look at it. Based on my readings I guess certain areas of the country saw many more David Browns than others.

I did make a post in the Case forum to see what they had to say. Although I think I might feel a bit more comfortable with a Ford 4600, I am not hopeful that I will find a good one that is well maintained and doesn't have 10000 hours for 4k. Decisions....Decisions.

Happy New Year!
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ultradog MN wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:12:34 12/31/17) As others have said, the X600s are really
the same tractors as their older sisters
the X000s.
The 600s did have some important
improvements but none of them really make
much difference in functionality or
longevity. Take a 4000 and a 4600 and they
will share about 90% of the same parts.
Same with a 3000/3600. Major componants
will all swap between them - heads,
cranks, blocks, tranny, axles, rear ends,
etc if you stay 4xxx to 4xxx, 3 to 3, 5 to
5 and so on. Wheel base, height, weight,
are the same within each series.
The back half of my 3000 is actually from
a 3600.
The 4xxxs are substantially more tractor
than the 3xxxs. Bigger, longer, heavier,
more hp. Best thing about the 4s and 5s
are the double reduction rear ends and wet
disc brakes. 3s had single reduction and
dry drum brakes which are ok but not
excellent like the others. 4s have a much
simpler, much heavier (better) front axle
and steering too, especially for loader
work. Early 5000 power steering was not
nearly as good as the later ones and
5600s.
Of course we like our Fords here and will
brag them up if given a chance but if you
go to Tractor Talk board and ask what were
the best utility tractors ever built in
that era - of all the major brands - the
4/5/46/5600s will consistantly come out on
top of the heap along with a couple of
Masseys. The 3010, 3020, 4010/20 JDs are
right up there too btw. The rest don't
even get mentioned.
Best includes, simplicity, longevity,
reliability, dealer support, parts
availability and probably other things.
They are good old tractors still.


This is good info and pretty much exactly the comparison I was looking for. Helps me a lot. Thank you. I think I am going to consider the Case 990 that and also a Ford 4600, 5000 or 5600.

Any reason to stick with a 3 cylinder 4600 vs a 4 Cylinder 5600? Are their benefits to either? Ii thought I read somewhere that although a bit rougher, the 3 cylinder Ford was somehow better than the 4 cylinder? Not sure if this holds water or not...

Have a happy new year.
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

65plymouth wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:06:04 12/31/17) Any reason to stick with a 3 cylinder 4600 vs a 4 Cylinder 5600? Are their benefits to either? Ii thought I read somewhere that although a bit rougher, the 3 cylinder Ford was somehow better than the 4 cylinder? Not sure if this holds water or not...


I think that maybe what you read was comparing the 1965+ 3 cylinders to the pre-1965 4 cylinders, and yes, the 3 cylinders were superior engines to the earlier 4 cylinder engines. The 1965+ 4 cylinder engines are basically the identical design as their 3 cylinder siblings and I have not heard much in the way of negative things about them compared to the 3 cylinders. If you get either one (1965+ 3 or 4 cylinder) with a diesel engine then make sure that you use a coolant with the anti-cavitation additive.
 
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Bern
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would only disagree with you on your point about the early 5000 power steering. Properly working and adjusted, those tractors would steer as easy as any John Deere out there. That said, performance would deteriorate as the parts started to wear.
 
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65plymouth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: 1970s Fords Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sean in PA wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:31:07 01/01/1Cool
65plymouth wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:06:04 12/31/17) Any reason to stick with a 3 cylinder 4600 vs a 4 Cylinder 5600? Are their benefits to either? Ii thought I read somewhere that although a bit rougher, the 3 cylinder Ford was somehow better than the 4 cylinder? Not sure if this holds water or not...


I think that maybe what you read was comparing the 1965+ 3 cylinders to the pre-1965 4 cylinders, and yes, the 3 cylinders were superior engines to the earlier 4 cylinder engines. The 1965+ 4 cylinder engines are basically the identical design as their 3 cylinder siblings and I have not heard much in the way of negative things about them compared to the 3 cylinders. If you get either one (1965+ 3 or 4 cylinder) with a diesel engine then make sure that you use a coolant with the anti-cavitation additive.


Thanks Sean... I bet that is what I read and just misunderstood.

So I found a 4600 I am considering.
The 2nd owner doesn't know much about it and has only owned it since last October. He says it runs and drives fine but other than that, he isn't a tractor guy. He sent me a pic of the serial number and it is very blurry. Looks like C59T235. It appears the tractor has indication of the "SU" sicker on the front tins, but the sticker is gone. Can anyone tell me if the serial number translates to a SU model and if so, is there anything wrong with the light front end SU model?

Here are some pics...





 
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