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Electrical Problem(I think)


 
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Bob MacDowell
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I bought a TO-30 two years ago and replaced all of the electrical parts. I don't use the tractor often so it sits for long periods of time. I bought an 8V Traveller battery last year that didn't seem to hold a charge, so I jumped the tractor with my truck (I know, not a good idea) when I needed to use it. I just replaced that battery with the same type. Tractor started right up and ran like a champ. I was going along and the tractor just stopped. I mean, not even a sputter! Dead. It doesn't make a sound when I try to start it. Do I have a short? Everything looks in order. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob M.

 
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Paul Kingsbury
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Bob
All right Automotive 101

An engine must have three "3" things to run, they are.

fuel - air @ about 16 parts to gas @ one part
spark - at the right time
compression

Always remember the above and you can test them very quickly on an old engine.

First take out a spark plug, put the sparkplug wire back onto the plug and ground the plug where you can see the electrode; look at the end of the plug, is it wet or dry?
Make sure you cant/dont get run over! Now you can turn over the engine, even put your finger into the clyinder / spark plug hole "you can hold about 30-35 psi before it leaks past your finger; more than enough to start an engine.

What is it you have found out from this 2 min exercise?
Do you have spark?
Do you have fuel?
Do you have compression?

Now just start where you have a problem; for example,

Do you have spark? No - put plug back in, check wire out of coil, is there spark when you turn the engine over? yes/no
if no check points,
if yes check cap, plug wire, spark plug.

get the idea???

If you need more help just ask.

Paul

 

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Bob MacDowell
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Paul,
Thanks for the advice. I can't check any of that because when the key is on and I try to start the tractor, nothing happens. No turn over! Could it have something to do with the generator or a short in the system?
Bob

 
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gshadel
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob, Your 6V system ain't a 100% compatible match with your 8V battery... you probably know that already. Your generator will likely NOT do a good job charging-up your 8V battery, so you will need to charge the battery with a charger to keep a good charge on it. You can try adjusting the 3rd brush to increase generator output and check with a multimeter to try to get 8V out of it... I'm skeptical that you will ever get what you need for long term success though. Depending how long you ran your tractor, your battery may just be dead.
Your 6V coil may run hot on a 8V battery, and may shorten the coil life. Jumping with a 12V truck don't help either. The points & condenser, and the starter don't really care about the volts, though.


For your current problem, charge your battery & check your ground connection to the back of the dash to make sure it is clean & shiny. Dirty/rusty connections is the # 1 cause for poor starting, charging, and ignition in these old 6V systems. If you have an automotive style ignition/starter key switch, I would guess it's probably shorted out.

If you decide to buy another battery at some point, I recommend buying a 6V and cleaning-up your current wiring (shiny connections, 14 gauge wire or better, good terminals & grounds), or going all the way with a 12V conversion (much more expensive), and try to get away from the 8V battery.


George


 

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Bob MacDowell
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks George, TSC does not carry 6V so the search is on!
Bob

 
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Paul Kingsbury
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One of the first tools anyone should have is an electrical tester "test light". The new ones are 12 volt, this will work on 6/8 volt systems it will just be dim when on. These cost $1 to $7 depending on the type and where you buy it. Next you will need a charger that will charge 12 and 6 volt, put it on 6 volt to charge your 8 volt battery.
All of the above is to tell you, do you have full voltage to your starter/battery. Use your test light first accross the battery, then to ground "remember 6 volt positive ground and 12 volt negative ground".
You can jump your tractor with a 12 volt rig, just rember to not have your rig running, pos to pos and neg to neg. After it starts disconect off ground first.

Do you have a short? No, maybe a bad conection, yes?

Your generator will charge a 8 volt battery "not very good though" BUT,,, you need to change your regulator to an 8 volt type, still pos ground.

Your tractor can and will die like you explained when you loose all electric if your generator isn't working.....

Paul

 

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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I gather your starter won't turn over. Make sure that your battery is fully charged.I'd get a real 6V in there if I were you. Some times the starter switch, which (if you have the OEM system) is actuated by the gear shift lever, gets corroed or arc damaged and will not make a connection. Jump around the switch with a jumper cable BEING CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TRACTOR IS NOT IN GEAR BECAUSE YOU ARE BYPASSING THE SAFETY SWITCH! If it turns over, you've found your problem.

What size starter connect cables do you have. 0 or 00 wire are the best especially for 6V systems. Make sure the battery terminals are clean and the connections are "bright and tight".

When you get the starter working, then check out the primary ignition circuit by removing the center wire from the distributor cap, holding it near a good ground and trying a start. You should have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK. If you don't, most lkely something in the primary circuit is faulty. It could be the point setting, the point condition, a bad connection, a bad coil, etc. You'll have to get theat right to get a reliable start and good running.

If the spark is right, then move on to the fuel system. there are a lot of these old machines whose fuel tanks are filled with all sorts of crap and corruption that restrict the fuel delivery.(I doubt that this is you problem because you said the tractor died abruptly.) Check the sediment bowl,sediment bowl filter, and the "secret filter" in the carb fuel inlet elbow. Better yet, open the big plug at the bottom of the carb and holding a suitable container under the carb, open the tank valve. Fuel should CONTINUOUSLY POUR OUT LIKE A COW PEEIN' ON A FLAT ROCK. If it does that at least you have a good fuel supply to the carb. Check the sediment bowl and the filters i mentioned earlier. If they are clear and you don't havethe requisite continuos gush of fuel, the float may be sticking on the inside of the fuel bowl or the fuel bowl is full of sediment and won't drop. Rap the sie of the carb with a wood block and sometmes that will unstick the float.

Do these checks in the order that I have outlined them, write down the results for future reference and you should find the cause of your problem.

 

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Bob MacDowell
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well George, you were right! I called TSC and they had 6V batteries. So I brought the new 8V(dead) battery I just exchanged for the one year old 8V back and squabbled for a 6V. They gave me a 6V and $36 dollars back. I put the 6V in and she fired right up! I'm back in business.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Bob

 
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gshadel
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yeah!!!, love success stories!
As you get time, go though your wiring and make sure all your terminals are shiny clean and connections tight, especially the wiring to your generator, to your regulator, and to your coil & distributor. Make sure the grounding lug on your regulator mounting bolt is clean & shiny and the mounting bolt is clean & shiny. Your regulator controls your generator output & needs a good ground on the regulator to work. Poor ground = poor charging.

George

 

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phil(va)
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Electrical Problem(I think) Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok, so you have solved your problem. BUT..., if you ever have to jump with a 12 volt battery again, you can do it with no damage to anything. Make sure tractor is out of gear, turn on key, hook jumper to one side of 12 volt batter and other end of that cable to top of starter (doesn"t matter if pos or neg). Then make sure tractor is out of gear one more time, and after that hook cable to other side of 12 volt battery and touch other end of that cable to a good ground on the tractor. If starter is good, it will turn over, and if key is on it should start.

 
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