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713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor


 
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kmacht
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I ran across an ad for a very cheap Ford 713 backhoe. I'm wondering if it would be a good fit and what it would take to get it mounting and working on my 63 4000. I have seen some other photos of similar ford backhoes attached to 4000 tractors but never any details of how it attaches or how it hooks into the hydraulics. Any thoughts or suggestions from someone who has gone down this path before?

Keith
 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't know what era the 713 is from, but suspect it to be just after the hundred series which was post '64. This likely has no bearing on it's adaptation to your '63 4000. My 850 had a Sherman power digger, mounted to it using a point subframe that connected to the Wagner loader, essentially making it a full frame type mount. The 4 point mount would not be too much trouble to fabricate, but I am not sure what the 713 would need to mount. It is a full size backhoe, and will be heavy. I think a bit too heavy, and your tractor may be subject to a lot more abuse if the backhoe is not operated with care. My 850 has obvious signs a backhoe was a bit much for it.

The hydraulics to operate it may also be a problem, I do not think the tractors hydraulic system would do much for one of these, so you would need a PTO operated hydraulic pump and a reservoir.

As much as I prefer a stand alone dedicated tractor loader backhoe, you might be better served if you found a smaller/lighter 3 point hitch backhoe, already set up with a PTO pump and utilize some kind of sub frame for it. The 3pt hitch would take some abuse if you are not very careful, a subframe would be ideal and should reinforce things enough to use for lighter tasks. They are handy on a tractor and can save a lot of labor, but you have to remember what it is and not get too aggressive with it.

I considered doing this, but realized I needed a dedicated tractor loader backhoe. I did a few landscape jobs with a compact tractor with a small backhoe, very handy and capable, but with limitations. When connected, your tractor will then be dedicated to the attachment, so if you change implements often, might be more repetitive work than you want to do.

I've posted these photos before, but they are of a Dearborn 4 pt backhoe mount for a hundred series tractor.




 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Assuming your 4000 is an agricultural all-purpose model you need an
attaching kit (AKA subframe). These create a four-point quick
attach mounting point to receive the backhoe. The Messicks link
below shows a general example. You also need a hydraulic kit or
eqivalent which consists of a front-mounted pump that services both
the loader and backhoe. The hydraulic kit also has a selector valve
which sends the pump output to either the loader or backhoe just not
both at the same time. Hydraulics on a 713 are simple open center.
Good luck finding a suitable attaching kit, they are probably hard
to come by.
Messicks example 713 attaching kit

 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 713 backhoe was introduced by Ford around 1958 roughly coincidentally with the introduction of the XX1 tractor series. It was designed and built under contract by Wain Roy. Below is the front page of the introductory brochure from my collection.


 
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kmacht
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies and pictures. I do realized that a sub-frame of some sort will need to be fabricated. I have the equipment and tools to do the fabrication but don't know where how how it would all attach to the tractor. The tractor is a regular agricultural with 3-point hitch (not the industrial version). There is a sherman loader attached to it with a sub frame that connects all the way back to the rear axle. It would be nice just to tie into that somehow if possible. The loader has a dedicated pump that runs off of the front of the motor and is separate from the 3 point hydraulics. The reservoir for the loader is actually the loader tube frame itself. I would love to get a new 3 point backhoe attachment but the money just isn't there to justify it. They run $5000+ where as the 713 is $400 and probably pretty negotiable as it has been for sale for at least two months. I would mostly be looking to use the backhoe to do some trenching, pull small (less than 6" dia) oak tree stumps and grading/moving dirt. We have a small horse farm and I am slowly turning the woods into pasture.
 
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Andy Wickiser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The original subframe was attached with U-bolts to the axle in the rear, and by a crossmember up front. The image below might help you get some ideas for your particular situation.


 
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Billy NY
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: 713 Backhoe on a 4000 Tractor Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With a front loader such as a Sherman, from what I can see a few photos of on the web, it's a heavier design, so there ought to be a way to connect a backhoe mount to it. My 850 still has it's 4 pt. mount and it's a flange connection in front of the rear axle, where the loader frame is one end and the backhoe mount is the other. It is a stress point and I am pretty sure I have replaced bolts there at some point. This 713 backhoe is heavy, so the frame needs to be able to deal with the weight and then some. photo is of the mount that I used for a counterweight, worked nice as the lift arms did not have to hold up this weight.

 
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