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H60E transmission problems

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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Posted yesterday but can't see it on here anywhere. I have a H60 E Pay loader. Just got it recently ran it for about five and a half hours working it hard. Shut it down for the night next morning started it up barely wanted to move. It has no brakes so I don't think it's the override that some have.
Any ideas on why it won't move now? Fluid is Right level
 
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Bret4207
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Do you have any manuals for it? My first thought would be plugged filters, assuming it has a torque converter of some sort.
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bret4207 wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:39:54 11/24/1Cool
Do you have any manuals for it? My first thought would be plugged filters, assuming it has a torque converter of some sort.


I have all the manuals for it. I have changed the filter. I cleaned both suction screens, they were filthy, and nothing changed.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sounds like the charge pump has lost it's prime,see if it is external and if so determine which pipe is the feed pipe,remove it and fill the pump and pipe with oil and give it a try,look for any breathers that the transmission may have see they are clean,is the engine tone changing when you put it in drive,make sure the brakes are off,some of those loaders had air over hydraulic brakes and unless the air pressure was building up the brakes would remain on even though the foot brake don't work,are the gauges working what are they saying.
AJ
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:59:15 11/24/1Cool Sounds like the charge pump has lost it's prime,see if it is external and if so determine which pipe is the feed pipe,remove it and fill the pump and pipe with oil and give it a try,look for any breathers that the transmission may have see they are clean,is the engine tone changing when you put it in drive,make sure the brakes are off,some of those loaders had air over hydraulic brakes and unless the air pressure was building up the brakes would remain on even though the foot brake don't work,are the gauges working what are they saying.
AJ


The pump is primed. Neither suction hose is collapsed it's sucking fluid out of the transmission. The driveshaft is turning when I put it in 3rd gear it and it goes in gear and the drive shaft stops at idle like it should. When I put it in first and second gear the driveshaft does not stop it keeps spinning.
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Also brakes are disabled so it isn't the brake override to put it in neutral
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Elanier81 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:52:29 11/27/1Cool
Also brakes are disabled so it isn't the brake override to put it in neutral


Up above I said drive shaft stops when it goes in third I meant input shaft
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Those machines are pension age and I can't remember the setup,is the torque mounted to the engine with a shaft to the transmission,a transfer box on the transmission with a drive shaft to each axle,if that's roughly the drive train and you can see the shaft from the torque spinning going into the transmission and there is nothing coming out, it will have a clutch for each direction and one for each speed,to narrow things down,it would be unlikely the forward and reverse would fail at the same time so thats out of the equation,unlikely all the speed would fail together so that's out also, you have checked out the control linkage is moving the valves and that's ok,it would help to know what transmission it has could be Clarke or Borg Warner ZF, etc,The Clarke had a fibre ring-gear that used to fail and get ground up like coffee granules,if it failed while you were digging it would make guessing easier but to fail when parked,was it in a graveyard or is the place haunted or something,did you find any metal in the strainer,could be a sheared spline,my next move would be a pressure check to eliminate the pump,valves etc.
AJ
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Tranny is a S700 International. Engine is Iternational also.
And yes you're description sounds pretty accurate of the layout.

My brother and I agree that it's about impossible that all of it went out at once, especially while sitting overnight.
We're not sure about the oil flow to the oil tubes in tranny. We know oil is coming out of pump to the manifold, but not positive past that.

I really feel that it is going to be fairly simple solution once the problem is found (hoping and praying).
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes I agree,does the machine have a nudge pedal that could be stuck down,the oil pressure regulator valve could be stuck open the mystery is why did it happen parked,a pressure test would tell if the clutches are engaging or not,you could try over on the IH site Red Power,the guys on there run nothing but IH stuff and someone might have come across your problem.
AJ
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 04:18:13 11/28/1Cool Yes I agree,does the machine have a nudge pedal that could be stuck down,the oil pressure regulator valve could be stuck open the mystery is why did it happen parked,a pressure test would tell if the clutches are engaging or not,you could try over on the IH site Red Power,the guys on there run nothing but IH stuff and someone might have come across your problem.
AJ


on the nudge pedal, I assume you're meaning the left brake pedal that says it takes the transmission out of gear?
And do you have any idea what the pressure should be have the clutch packs when they are engaging or when they are not engaging, just a rough idea? I don't think we saw what the pressure should be there in the manual but we can look again and see if it says
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Usually those sort of trannies would work between 170 psi to 200 but I am not certain,you would need the book for a reference,someone on here may know,I looked on the Komatsu site it is not listed there,its not listed on the Case IH site either,sorry I can't be of more help.
AJ
 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:03:45 11/28/1Cool Usually those sort of trannies would work between 170 psi to 200 but I am not certain,you would need the book for a reference,someone on here may know,I looked on the Komatsu site it is not listed there,its not listed on the Case IH site either,sorry I can't be of more help.
AJ


Thanks for all your help and if I can't find the pressures in the book that at least gives me a general idea of what I'm looking for
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As I get interested in problems I was nosing around in some old manuals and found a parts book for the H50B,there may not be a lot of difference in things like the transmission control valve,once I seen the drawing I remembered how the nudge pedal works,when the left pedal is pressed air is sent to the control valve and it moves the spool to the neutral position and then applies the brake in other words you drive up to a truck and need to stop and tip the bucket so its left foot on the pedal and you can keep the other foot on the throttle to keep the RPM up while you tip the bucket and put the machine in reverse,you will see in the attached parts that spool valve its the one I marked with the brown bar,that valve should be back to the right in the drawing by spring pressure when drive is engaged,if it was stuck forward there would be no drive,check its operation.
AJ

 
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Elanier81
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: H60E transmission problems Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:21:16 11/29/1Cool As I get interested in problems I was nosing around in some old manuals and found a parts book for the H50B,there may not be a lot of difference in things like the transmission control valve,once I seen the drawing I remembered how the nudge pedal works,when the left pedal is pressed air is sent to the control valve and it moves the spool to the neutral position and then applies the brake in other words you drive up to a truck and need to stop and tip the bucket so its left foot on the pedal and you can keep the other foot on the throttle to keep the RPM up while you tip the bucket and put the machine in reverse,you will see in the attached parts that spool valve its the one I marked with the brown bar,that valve should be back to the right in the drawing by spring pressure when drive is engaged,if it was stuck forward there would be no drive,check its operation.
AJ


Yes even though we have no air going to to the brakes cuz we have no brakes we checked that anyway to make sure that the spool was where it was supposed to be and it is not the issue
 
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