Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

Governor on 8N Problem?

Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a 1952 8N. I was running it the other day with no problems (light work, pulling a trailer with brush), but when I pulled it in to park it, and tried to reduce the
throttle, it did not respond. So I increased the throttle again, and then it revved up to what sounded like maximum-plus rpms. I was startled and immediately turned off
the key. I re-started it right away, and it immediately revved up to max again, and would not respond to the throttle, so I shut it off again. I checked the linkages from
the throttle to the governor to the carb, and all are connected and all move. I?ve never paid much attention to how the arms on the governor actually move, but they
appear to be moving as they should. I tapped the carb and the governor with a hammer in case anything was lightly stuck (hey, you never know, right?), but it still
revved up to max immediately upon starting. So, is this a governor problem I have here? And if so, am I looking at a rebuild, a replace, or what? Appreciate any help!
Tim
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob
Tractor Guru


Joined: 03 Jan 1998
Posts: 53640


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The throttle butterfly (in the throat of the carburetor) is held to the throttle shaft by two little screws, it wouldn't be the first time they've fallen out.

If that's not the problem, the way a "N" governor works is that the external spring tries to pull the throttle wide open, and centrifugal force acting on the weights (balls) inside the governor tries to pull the throttle closed, and the speed at which the forces balance is the speed the engine will run at a given throttle setting.

The force from the weights passes through a ball thrust bearing onward to the "fork" on the governor output shaft, making the lever on the outside of the governor move to close the throttle butterfly.

If the bearing fails and comes apart, that makes for a lot of "lost motion" so the governor can't fully close the throttle butterfly to control speed.

So that's what I'd check for... first, check if the throttle butterfly has come loose, then remove the governor and check the mechanism between the weights (balls) and the governor output arm.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 80279
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Remove the linkage at the carb it self and hold the carb at an idle position and start it up. If it goes to max butterfly has popped free but if you can control the RPM by hand then the gov is likely to have gone bad and probably a spring or 2 broke in the gov
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob
Tractor Guru


Joined: 03 Jan 1998
Posts: 53640


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-old wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:12:22 12/29/1Cool Remove the linkage at the carb it self and hold the carb at an idle position and start it up. If it goes to max butterfly has popped free but if you can control the RPM by hand then the gov is likely to have gone bad and probably a spring or 2 broke in the gov


"probably a spring or 2 broke in the gov"

Trouble is with that statement, there's NO springs "IN" an "N" governor, and if the EXTERNAL spring breaks, the engine will go to idle, rather than "over rev".
 
Back to top
View user's profile
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 80279
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Never had an 8N gov open so did not know there are no springs in side but have had other gov apart on other tractors and they had internal spring holding the weights together
 
Back to top
View user's profile
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

OK...I?ll have to wait til morning to try these suggestions....was busy on something else all day. I have a diagram of the 8N governor so I can see what we?re talking about here. I REALLY hope it?s just the butterfly in the carb coming loose. Thanks, guys.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

So I haven’t been able to check the carb yet....but if it IS the butterfly valve having come loose, and the screws are out and missing, where do I get the screws to re-attach it? I don’t see that they come with either the carb rebuild kit or a new butterfly valve on this site. Maybe they do and they’re just not shown, but I’m assuming they’re a specialty screw and not to be found at just any hardware store?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob
Tractor Guru


Joined: 03 Jan 1998
Posts: 53640


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

They are just small, short brass screws, probably #4-32 or #6-32.

Usually, they were "staked" in place at the factory by mashing the threaded end a bit.

Once someone removes them to "kit" the carb, they may NOT get staked again.

I typically us a tiny drop of Locktite.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 80279
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That carb kits I get from O'Reilly's auto part stores have the screw for the butterfly in there Walker brand kit. Kit number 778-505A if I remember right
 
Back to top
View user's profile
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Sooo....I took the links off as suggested and could not control the RPMs by hand. So I took the carb off and...SURPISE!....no butterfly disc at all...it’s gone. So obviously that was the problem. I assume it got sucked into the engine, because it’s nowhere to be found. So I’ll have to get a new one. BUT, there’s no way to screw the new one onto the old pivot-arm...the little screws can’t be turned. So I’m assuming a carb rebuild kit will have all that? (Not the disc itself but the pivot-arm and the little screws)[/quote]
 
Back to top
View user's profile
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here’s the pivot-arm I’m talking about...I don’t know what it’s actually called:

 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bob
Tractor Guru


Joined: 03 Jan 1998
Posts: 53640


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

GerberHillTim wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:36:27 12/31/1Cool
Sooo....I took the links off as suggested and could not control the RPMs by hand. So I took the carb off and...SURPISE!....no butterfly disc at all...it’s gone. So obviously that was the problem. I assume it got sucked into the engine, because it’s nowhere to be found. So I’ll have to get a new one. BUT, there’s no way to screw the new one onto the old pivot-arm...the little screws can’t be turned. So I’m assuming a carb rebuild kit will have all that? (Not the disc itself but the pivot-arm and the little screws)
[/quote]

WOW, I made a good guess, eh?

Looks like you should be able to grab the remains of the screws with a small Vise Grip and unscrew them.

A "basic" carb kit likely won't have a "throttle shaft" in it but a "complete" or "master" kit probably will, as the ones sold by this very site do.

Wonder where the butterfly went... it's brass and the "side valve" engine has lots of clearance between the piston and head.

One bad scenario would be if it wedged under a valve so it couldn't close/seal.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/store/model_parts.cgi?SearchArea=Ford&&md=8N&cat=Fuel%20System%20/%20Air%20Intake&r=mcats

Carb kit page on this site.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

So in looking on here, I don’t see where they sell JUST the butterfly disc for the 8N (I see they do for the NAA and up). The only one that has the disc is the $54 total rebuild kit, and I don’t want to do a total rebuild. I could by the throttle arm and the gaskets and the disc all separately for probably a third of that if they sell the disc by itself. Am I missing that somewhere?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
GerberHillTim
Regular


Joined: 07 Jul 2018
Posts: 23


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Now, in looking a bit closer, it appears that the disc they describe as only going on NAA and newer actually has the same part number as the 8N (9N9585).....so maybe I’m ok just getting that and the other parts separately. With the cost of shipping on here, I hate to have to order some different part later because I made a mistake.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
old
Tractor Guru


Joined: 12 Mar 2000
Posts: 80279
Location: Lake of the Ozarks area of MO

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Governor on 8N Problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'd pull the manifold off and see if you are luck and find it in the manifold or in one of the intake holes. That way down the road you will not be having it get stuck In a valve or worst get into the engine it self Not sure where your at but I bet there are a number of people on here that would have that part laying around. I'd almost bet I have one out in my shop
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Restoration and Repair Tips All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters