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8N not throttle response


 
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powrguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well, my 8N (a 1951 model, SM distributor) all of a sudden has no throttle response. It will start, but barely runs, and does not increase speed when throttle is advanced. Yes, I checked all the linkages and fuel flow to the carb, and they are apparently normal.

I checked compression, and all cylinders are 90-95psi. My thought is that this indicates valves are closing okay, and no head gasket leak (no water in oil, oil is clean and normal level).

It almost acts as though it may be out of time, but it starts, and there's no back-firing.

Could it be a cam gear/governor gear problem? Don't know where to look next, so anyone that may have had similar problem could chime in?

I DO see that the governor linkage to the carb moves as the engine rpm changes slightly. It just seems to have NO throttle response at all, even though the throttle linkage opens the butterfly on the carb, but the engine remains at near-idle speed, regardless of throttle position, if that helps.

Tractor had been running fine, 2 weeks ago, and when it was started this past weekend, the above situation occurred.

OK, 8N Guru's, I put a new carb on, tried to start the tractor, and SOS; starts at idle and won't throttle up. I had COMPLETELY drained the fuel tank, put in fresh fuel, changed screen and gasket on the fuel tank shutoff bowl, removed air inlet pipe, cleaned air filter (wasn't sludged up at all, but changed the oil in it, anyway), cleaned and re-gapped plugs, etc.

Don't wanna pull the governor apart, as it was a SUDDEN problem, not a slow deterioration (like when the balls wear out).

Next move may be a bullet hole in the damned thing! LOL
 
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boler76
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

will it respond to operating throttle by hand at the carb?
 
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Roger in Iowa
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check the simple stuff!

What was done to the tractor before the weekend?

Throttle linkage does not move butterfly, the linkage from governor does.

What happens when you pull out the choke?
Any smoke out the exhaust?
Air cleaner cup full of frozen water?
Linkages to the carb on right? Governor linkage to carb goes near intake manifold area. Choke linkage goes on near
intake pipe from air cleaner.
Move the governor linkage to carb by hand, does the engine speed change?
 
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powrguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Does NOT continue running if:

Governor-to-carb link is moved by hand

Governor-to-carb link is removed and carb butterfly is moved by hand

Throttle, choke, and governor links are all connected correctly, and not binding against block, manifold, carb, etc.

Adding choke while it is roughly idling and throttle is advanced causes no improvement, and usually chokes out and stalls.
 
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fusion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A few years ago I had the same problem with my Ferguson TO-30
it would start but I could not get any throttle
I called a old farmer friend of mine, I started it up and it would not throttle
he stood there for awhile and said your exhaust is plugged, we disconnected it at the
manifold and it ran good, I took the muffler off and here a mouse had filled it up with
corn and the corn got wet and it swelled up and plugged it up good.
Just a thought .
 
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powrguy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-fusion wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:46:04 01/10/19) A few years ago I had the same problem with my Ferguson TO-30
it would start but I could not get any throttle
I called a old farmer friend of mine, I started it up and it would not throttle
he stood there for awhile and said your exhaust is plugged, we disconnected it at the
manifold and it ran good, I took the muffler off and here a mouse had filled it up with
corn and the corn got wet and it swelled up and plugged it up good.
Just a thought .


Right now, I took the distributor cap off, and then checked the plug sequence to be 1-2-4-3. Now, mind you, the tractor had been running fine up until 2 weeks ago, then 2 weeks later when we went to use it, the above throttle-up issue started. When I checked the plug wire locations, it seems it was not correct and I re-connected 1-2-4-3, with the #1 plug wire in the 2 o-clock position (this is a side-mount). Then, it wouldn't fire. I cleaned and re-gapped the points (.025), and now I do not have fire at the plugs at all. I think the points are now shot, and I'll get replacements tomorrow.

On the mouse issue in the exhaust mentioned, I have a bazzillion mice chewing in the barn on ANYTHING paper-based, and I have the down-under routed exhaust pipe and muffler. I will get the points replaced tomorrow, then try to start it with the exhast removed. It's POSSIBLE a mouse nested in the muffler (would be wonderful if the fix is a simple exhaust replacement), but I won't know until I can get it to fire-up, again.

thanks
 
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Jim L WA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I ran into a plugged exhaust issue years ago on a Datsun pick up. It acted just like you and Fusion are describing. The one thing I remember about that was a white vapor that would come up out of the carburetor intake when I would try to throttle it up.
 
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powrguy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Okay....latest troubleshooting nightmares. After I lost spark for whatever reason, I put in a new points and condensor, disconnected the exaust pipe from the exhaust manifold, and then cranked the engine.....and, it started. Not only did it start, it actually responded to the throttle, for about 1 minute....small round carbonized balls came out of the exhaust manifold when it was first started, and then it quit running. I re-started it, but it would only run super-smoothly at idle, but NOT AT ALL when I advanced the throttle lever (it would sputter and die). I gathered up the carbonized balls that scattered all over the floor, and wound up with about a handful and a half of 1/4" to 3/8" balls and pieces, which were actually small baked acorns, I think. This indicated to me that some rodent crawled up the exhaust pipe, navigated through the muffler baffles and screens, and stored acorns in the exhaust manifold area in the engine, and probably also in the muffler. There's no sign that the debris would have entered the cylinders, as the exhaust pressure would have forced them out, AND, the engine compression test was good. I'll try to clear debris from the exhaust pipe and muffler, but may just replace the exahaust system and be done with that issue.

My other problem currently, along with the no-throttle-response issue, is that I have what appears to be coolant/oil mixture dripping from the oil filler neck breather cap. I have no idea how this coolant can be coming out the breather, since the oil in the crankcase is at proper level, and is clean as when the oil was changed about a month ago, and the tractor has had hardly any run-time since then. How can coolant come out of the breather cap, with NO COOLANT in the oil pan?

Thoughts?
 
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Jim L WA
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With the exhaust plugged up, it created a bunch of crankcase pressure which forced oil like vapor up the fill tube. I can't account for the coolant unless there is a slight crack in the cylinder wall or somewhere. It all might clear up when you get the exhaust issue solved. Let's hope.
 
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HFJ
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote


are u sure it's coolant and not just condensation?
 
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powrguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: 8N not throttle response Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Jim L WA wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:00:16 01/12/19) With the exhaust plugged up, it created a bunch of crankcase pressure which forced oil like vapor up the fill tube. I can't account for the coolant unless there is a slight crack in the cylinder wall or somewhere. It all might clear up when you get the exhaust issue solved. Let's hope.


Jim:

Problem apparently has been solved.

The burnt acorns finally were expelled from the exhaust manifold, and with the exhaust pipe disconnected, tractor is again running fine. If I connect the exhaust pipe, the tractor goes back to not throttling up, pressure builds and expels condensation out the oil fill breather, etc.

I'm ordering an hew exhaust system and am runnning now with no exhaust to return the tractor to the barn, from my garage.
 
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