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53 Jubilee new coil question

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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Bob wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:51:33 01/10/19)
bfonda wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:39:07 01/10/19)
I have an inline spark detector i usually use for the spark plug. I hooked it up between the coil and distibutor and cranked. I got no spark indicator. Doesnt make sense if brand new coil.


It means you have issues with power getting to the coil OR the points aren't making contact when closed OR there's an "open" or a "short" in the primary circuit between the coil and the points.

Wouldn't be the first time the "paper" insulators at the terminal post got damaged, allowing the post to short to the distributor body, or the little copper strip between the terminal post and the points BROKE, or possibly got bent, causing it to short to the distributor body.

Condensers can short, as well.

Try this... grab an unpowered test light that will light on 6 Volts, ground one lead, and connect the other to the "distributor side" primary terminal on the coil.

Turn on the ignition switch.

If the points are "open", the light should light, if the points are closed, the light should NOT be lit.

If you crank the engine, the light should flash on and off, as the points open and close.

Try that simple test and post back with the results.


Bob: with the ignition switch rewired and working i did your test. I now get connection to the distibutor side of the coil. When I turn it over it does not flash but does dim.
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


1.12.2019 Update. Apparently i had an ignition switch issue. Rewired and now get power !!.

I now get power to the coil both going in and coming out. When testing with a volt meter I am getting 6V then 3V when turning over. It never goes to 0, which you might expect for a properly opening and closing point.

Still not getting spark to the plugs.

I think i have a distributor problem. I am concerned its a ground issue maybe the insulator.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check the voltage between the little terminal stud protruding from the distributor and a good, clean chassis ground, ignition switch ON, points CLOSED.

If REALLY 3 Volts, move to the insulated breaker point arm, and take a voltage reading, then at the grounded side of the breaker points (mounted to the breaker plate), referenced to the same good, clean chassis ground.
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ok, with this test properly grounded i get 6V with the point open AND closed.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you measuring 6 Volts on the terminal stud AND the insulated breaker arm?

How about at the other place I asked you to measure, the grounded point mounted to the breaker plate?
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


To be clear I got the 6V reading from the stud on the outside of the distributor that is wired with a small wire back to the coil.

I am unclear where the insulated breaker point is or where the ground point is.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Take off the distributor cap and look at the points.

One is on the "breaker arm" that moves as the cam turns, and has an insulator at it's pivot point..

Measure the voltage on this "breaker arm" both with the points "open" and with them "closed".
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


6 V open and closed
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is that the reading at the stationary/grounded point, as well, and the breaker mounting plate?
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


yes
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

bfonda wrote:
(quoted from post at 21:06:09 01/12/19)
yes


If this is TRUE, and you are getting a voltage reading of 6 Volts above chassis ground at the insulated point, the grounded point AND the breaker plate, either the distributor is not grounded through it's mounting to the engine, or the breaker plate is not grounded to the distributor, either would be VERY rare, but possible.

Voltage measurement between the grounded breaker point and a CLEAN spot on the distributor housing?

Voltage measurement between a CLEAN spot on the distributor housing and a CLEAN spot on the chassis/engine block?
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ok, I am going to go back through the points you mentioned and retest. Want to make sure i didn't misread. Thanks for the time tonight.
 
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John T
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote

bfonda, did you work through my Troubleshooting Procedure ??

If a test lamp or voltmeter on the coils output (to distributor) does not flash ON (points open) and go OFF (or volts near zero) when they are closed, see a portion of my Ignition Troubleshooting Procedure below........(See Para 5)

Typical causes of such may be Points not fully closing,,,,,,,,,,,Points badly burned or pitted,,,,,,,,,,The wire is open from coil to and through distributor side terminal to points terminal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,points or distributor or its plate isn't well grounded...??.. Points aren't actually wired/connected to the distributors side terminal ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,,,,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,,,,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,,,,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,,,,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,,,,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,,,,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,,,,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.


Are the points closing fully????????????? Are they badly burned or pitted??????????? Is the wiring good from coil to distributor side terminal to points terminal inside????????? Are the points wired correctly????

Let us know

John T
John Ts Ignition Troubleshooting

 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Well after replacing the coil, and distributor points, condenser and rotor and rereading and retesting multiple connections after reading and rereading your comments, i think i found the culprit.......a burned out high voltage distibutor cable from the coil.

I cant get any current to flow through the line let alone the high voltage needed.

This has certainly been an education. I spent as much time trying to figure out the names of the parts and test locations as anything else. I appreciate the patience especially Bob of going back and forth for several hours Sat night.

I'll update tomorrow once i get a new cable.
 
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bfonda
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 53 Jubilee new coil question Reply to specific post Reply with quote


John, thanks for this it has definitely part of my testing. Appreciate the thought and effort you put into this checklist.
 
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