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Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash

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ETD66SS
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote


 
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Jim.ME
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Some?????
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You talking about the reduction hub or are you talking about the differential ring gear and pinion,all the axles that size I put together I would give the ring gear and pinion 10thou,I can't say I remember any setting on the planet gears as they fixed,I have never seen them worn unless they were ran without oil but ?.
AJ
 
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ETD66SS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm not sure really. The machine is parked, drive shafts off. I can move the differential pinion 45 degrees (+/- 22.5 deg) without the machine rolling. So from the differential input pinion all the way out to the planetary gearboxes that the wheels mount to, there is 45 degrees of total backlash. If I listen for the differential pinion to ring gear backlash, I get maybe 2-3 degrees of pinion movement.
 
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NC Wayne
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As old as that machine is, the driveline
movement you're seeing sounds about right.

As AJ said, the planetaries in the hub
don't have backlash per-se, but there will
be some wear on the gear teeth, especially
if they have been run dry. Between that,
whatever clearance there is on the ring
and pinion, and any wear in the axel
splines, etc, around a quarter turn sounds
good as compared to some old machines I've
seen.

That said, some semi-fluid grease will
help keep some lube in the hubs when
regular oil won't stay due to seals
leaking. If it's not a machine you plan to
use alot, trying that may save you the
headache of tearing it down for new seals.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My question now is why are the drive shafts off,it is not something one would do just for the sake of doing it,was there a clunking noise or what?,did you find any metal on the drain plugs,is there any makers name on the axle,ie ZF Eaton etc
AJ
 
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ETD66SS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:47:04 06/27/19) My question now is why are the drive shafts off,it is not something one would do just for the sake of doing it,was there a clunking noise or what?,did you find any metal on the drain plugs,is there any makers name on the axle,ie ZF Eaton etc
AJ


I took the driveshafts off because about a year ago I replaced an upper seal on the transfer case then proceeded to fill it with 80W90 oil. There was not much oil in it when I drained it. When I went to fill it back up, everything looked fine. I noticed a couple months later all the 80W90 seeped out of the lower seals, hence the reason I am taking off the driveshafts, to replace the lower transfer case seals. While taking off said driveshafts I was alarmed at the backlash I was seeing through the axles, so want to investigate.

As you can see from these pictures, the machine is in very rough shape: https://imgur.com/a/zgEKA

Typically when I "investigate" something on this machine I wind up finding stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/edit?ar=3&o=U&video_id=-yeiyIDZOZ8

Just wanted peoples' opinions on the axles is all, as it looked concerning to me, as in why bother spending money on driveshaft U-Joints is the axles are toast etc...
 
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ETD66SS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote


I should add I have never really run this machine. Got it off CL for $3000 because it looked like a fun toy/project. I only drove it a little bit, don't recall any axle clunking. Just been tinkering with it as I have time, wanted to get it operating this summer.

I did have two of the planetary axle end caps off, no oil came out, think the oil is supposed to be half way up that plate... They were either run with low oil, or all the years the machine sat it seeped out. I'm not sure this machine has been used much if at all the last ~20 years.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As Wayne said you will have play in the drive line of a machine that age,I would repair the oil leaks and not worry about the play,do not over fill the axles as the hub reduction with all those gears acts like a pump,it may last you long enough.
AJ
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 17:09:26 06/27/19) As Wayne said you will have play in the drive line of a machine that age,I would repair the oil leaks and not worry about the play,do not over fill the axles as the hub reduction with all those gears acts like a pump,it may last you long enough.
AJ


I do plan to take off one of the steering housings due to ovaled out steering pin bosses that I'd like to line bore and sleeve. This will require disassembly of one of the planetary gear boxes all the way down to the CV/U-joint. So I will be able to get a good look at least one of the units to see how bad it looks.

https://imgur.com/W0B4gcQ

At some point I do want to get all the brakes working, and I'll want to inspect all the shoes and wheel cylinders etc, that job will require each planetary to be disassembled. So at some point I will get a look at them.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are those the wallowed out holes in the picture,I would reamer them out in situ,if there is no other reason I would not remove the swivel for that,it's leave well enough alone if possible,the hub seal can be replaced by just removing the hub,what I see in the picture of that end of the axle looks good.
AJ
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:57:50 06/29/19) Are those the wallowed out holes in the picture,I would reamer them out in situ,if there is no other reason I would not remove the swivel for that,it's leave well enough alone if possible,the hub seal can be replaced by just removing the hub,what I see in the picture of that end of the axle looks good.
AJ


The steering cylinder pin worked its way out about halfway, and it looks like someone used the machine like that for many hours/years, ovaling out the top hole. I don't think I can fix it on the machine, plan to work on it today, we'll see...
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This is where I stopped today: https://imgur.com/PaImZTc

The bolts on the top king pin felt like they were twisting as opposed to loosening, so put some Kroil on them.

I tried to see where all the backlash was from, but working alone I could not watch the planetary gears while I was moving the pinion yoke on the differential.

What I can say is, if I grab hold of the differential pinion yoke with one hand, and the sun pinion on the end of the axle with the other, I am in no way seeing 45 degrees of movement, maybe 3-5 degrees at most. So the differential ring & pinion, and the steering u-joint seem to be fine, for this side anyways.

I looked at the planetary gears, and I see no excessive wear. There was hardly any oil in the planetary gear boxes, but there was no metal shavings, no broken teeth, the spur gear engagement looked good to me. https://imgur.com/DddaGrv

On the bright side, the brakes looked brand new: https://imgur.com/zzpPuIt

I do see that the planetary hub did suffer some casting damage, like at one time there was a problem with the planetary gear train and something got chewed up.
 
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AJ.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Me admiring how decent the axle looked it did not dawn on me the reason was that there was no oil in the hubs,no wonder it did not show a leak,all the gears look ok hope the planet gear spindles are not pitted,the brake shoe looks to be an odd shape looks like only 75% of the lining was making contact with the hub ?,it's going to keep you busy for a while.
AJ
 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Pettibone 88EL planetary axle backlash Reply to specific post Reply with quote

AJ. wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:09:43 06/30/19) Me admiring how decent the axle looked it did not dawn on me the reason was that there was no oil in the hubs,no wonder it did not show a leak,all the gears look ok hope the planet gear spindles are not pitted,the brake shoe looks to be an odd shape looks like only 75% of the lining was making contact with the hub ?,it's going to keep you busy for a while.
AJ


Yeah, I noticed the shoes as well, the bottom pins that hold the shoes are eccentric, and I think someone had them adjusted wrong, so the shoes have uneven wear.

Unfortunately the wheel cylinder didn't look as good on the inside as the outside: https://imgur.com/kBRKY3i

The original brake drum from 1971 sure cleaned up nice though: https://imgur.com/ktXYUmX

I should be able to hone out the wheel cylinder: https://imgur.com/r35mrr2

After what I discovered so far, I'm definitely going to have to tear into all the planetary units to inspect, as well as to fix the brakes.
 
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